# No Coding Jobs for inexperienced Coders



## ttsaunders1

I have been searching for a coding job for over 5 years.  I have an associate's degree in MOT and I am now a CPC.  I am still searching for a job.  I have done externship with an AAPC accredited company.  Still there are no jobs available in my state for those with no experience.  What can we do as a community to change this.  I spoke with the president in my local chapter.  She speaks as if we can not change the way things are.  I believe that we can if we all pull together and work hard for what we believe in.  I want to know is there anyone else out there that is having this same issue.  I know of several other people in my area.  Someone please help me to change this.  I am not going to give up.  Though at times I do get a little discouraged about this.  I am 30 year old single mother of three and in dyer need of a job with a lasting career in the medical coding field.  I have many other talents but they are not a challenge to me only this medical field is my biggest challenge.  So if you hear me, feel me and understand me help me please! We are counting on helping hands and those of you who are having this same issue.  To push this through all states around the world to give people that do not have experience to give them the opportunity to gain experiene with varies companies besides just dong volunteer work which is a great thing.  But after you have taking that step where do you go from there.  I have been faxing my resume, posting my resume and building my resume.   I am not looking for a hand out just a breakthrough.  I will work hard for what I believe in and this is something that I will work hard for to change.  I just need people on y side and to help shjow me the way.  Thanks 
Tanisha Saunders Atlanta, Georgia native.   I can be contacted through email: ttsaunders1@bellsouth.net.  DESPERATELY SEEKING FOR ANSWER


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## carafry

*something will come along*

I live in the Chicago area and the adds I see also want experience.  The way I see it, you've got a few options.  You could apply for jobs that are looking for experience and tell the interviewer about your education history and how well you did in school and on your test and how motivated you are and tell them that you know you will be a valuable asset to them if they give you the chance.  You could apply as an entry-level medical receptionist and watch for and ask for coding-related responsibilities until you have enough to include on a resume.  You could also change fields but you don't seem like a quitter.    Good luck!


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## Pam Hogan

*Entry-level coding positon desired*

We're all in the same boat as graduates of coding programs and certified professions without work experience. I'm a fresh newbie - graduated last November and passed AHIMA's CCA exam on Jan. 11, 2008. I'm applying for anything and everything in the medical industry that I have a chance (or maybe not) of getting. The next AAPC externships in Louisville, KY, are scheduled for May. I'm trying for one of those, but I'm not sure how I'll support myself during the three months traineeship. It's hard to sustain a happy face and glorious optimism, but life goes on and we must stick together and try, try, try! Feel free to email at phogan@fastmail.fm
With best regards, Pam Hogan


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## marty3073

*I know what you mean*

Hi
I AM IN THE SAME SITUATION, I HAVE BEEN TRYIN TO FIND A JOB IN MEDICAL CODING AS WELL AND THE AREA WHERE I LIVE IT IS EVEN HARDER, BUT I HAVE HAD SOME OPPORTUNITIES, BUT OUT OF FEAR I GAVE UP, BUT I HAVE LEARNED FROM THAT. I ADMIRE YOUR ENDURANCE, AND BELIEVE ME IT IS GOING TO BE WORTH IT.  I SEE THAT YOU HAVE SENT YOUR RESUME OUT, BUT HAVE YOU TRIED LOOKING UP YELLOWBOOK. COM AND FIND ALL OF THE CLINICS IN YOUR AREA AND MAIL OUT YOUR RESUME, I BELIEVE SOMETHING WILL TURN UP. SO KEEP HANGING IN THERE.

P.S. DON'T KNOW IF YOU ARE RELIGIOUS, BUT READ ROMANS 8:31

FEEL FREE TO EMAIL ME: marty3073@hotmail.com


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## rthames052006

*not so easy for experienced coders either.*

Just wanted you to know that it is not easy for experienced coders either! There are so many jobs but way more applicant's going for the same jobs.  I have been billing/coding for 10 years now and I have been trying to get into more "coding" for a surgeon, or radiology.  

I've been getting alot of calls/interviews but with so many "coders" being certified and looking for jobs it's just not an easy task.  

I just wanted to share that info with you so that you know that your not alone and it's not easy all the way around.

I wish you luck,

Roxanne Thames, CPC















ttsaunders1 said:


> I have been searching for a coding job for over 5 years.  I have an associate's degree in MOT and I am now a CPC.  I am still searching for a job.  I have done externship with an AAPC accredited company.  Still there are no jobs available in my state for those with no experience.  What can we do as a community to change this.  I spoke with the president in my local chapter.  She speaks as if we can not change the way things are.  I believe that we can if we all pull together and work hard for what we believe in.  I want to know is there anyone else out there that is having this same issue.  I know of several other people in my area.  Someone please help me to change this.  I am not going to give up.  Though at times I do get a little discouraged about this.  I am 30 year old single mother of three and in dyer need of a job with a lasting career in the medical coding field.  I have many other talents but they are not a challenge to me only this medical field is my biggest challenge.  So if you hear me, feel me and understand me help me please! We are counting on helping hands and those of you who are having this same issue.  To push this through all states around the world to give people that do not have experience to give them the opportunity to gain experiene with varies companies besides just dong volunteer work which is a great thing.  But after you have taking that step where do you go from there.  I have been faxing my resume, posting my resume and building my resume.   I am not looking for a hand out just a breakthrough.  I will work hard for what I believe in and this is something that I will work hard for to change.  I just need people on y side and to help shjow me the way.  Thanks
> Tanisha Saunders Atlanta, Georgia native.   I can be contacted through email: ttsaunders1@bellsouth.net.  DESPERATELY SEEKING FOR ANSWER


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## mbort

Temp agencies are an awesome asset too, thats how I landed my coding job, then I moved 90 miles away and contacted the same temp agency and was placed within two weeks, both companies that I was hired by bought out the contract through the temp agency and hired me full time.

Good Luck


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## kmpiper

*I love being a contract coder*

Experience is the key, possibly revamping that resume' will get you in the door so you can sell yourself, I have worked in this field for over 13 years, I began with an entry level clerical position and have been a traveling coder since July of last year.  I LOVE IT!  There are so many opportunities out there.  Each assignment I've been on has offered me job opportunities but I like the temporary nature of things...kind of a test drive .  I realize not everyone can leave home, some of these companies offer remote coding.  If you can sell yourself and work hard you will succeed...I don't believe you'd be a coder if you couldn't. kwortmann@charter.net


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## grogers

*no jobs for inexperienced coders*

I too have been looking for a job and as a CPC-A it is discouraging when you hear or read that employers want you to have at least 2 years experience.  I am an LPN and completed my certification in medical billing and coding with graduation this past Spring; as a nurse I have had experience in Oncology,Orthopaedic Surgical, Med. Surg. and Long term care (usually on a skilled unit due to prior hospital experience), I too have been feeling like throwing in the towel but then I think that somewhere this combined knowledge would be a great asset for some company and one day soon some one will realize it.  My story along with the others on the page of no jobs for inexperienced coders tells me that something else needs to be done to change this waiting process.   Gail Rogers LPN CPC-A


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## KellyCPCCPCO

Not sure how close any are located to you but the local VA hospitals will hire coders that have just graduated and will train you.

I know it is frustrating. I have 12 years of coding experience. Once I had my daughter I knew I wanted to stay home and opted to apply for remote coding positions only. Even with my experience and background it took me a full year to find a position.

Do not give up and stick with it.....


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## amolson1325

grogers said:


> I too have been looking for a job and as a CPC-A it is discouraging when you hear or read that employers want you to have at least 2 years experience.  I am an LPN and completed my certification in medical billing and coding with graduation this past Spring; as a nurse I have had experience in Oncology,Orthopaedic Surgical, Med. Surg. and Long term care (usually on a skilled unit due to prior hospital experience), I too have been feeling like throwing in the towel but then I think that somewhere this combined knowledge would be a great asset for some company and one day soon some one will realize it.  My story along with the others on the page of no jobs for inexperienced coders tells me that something else needs to be done to change this waiting process.   Gail Rogers LPN CPC-A



Gail...I share in your frustration!!!!! Have you tried looking under "chart review"? I have seen more coding jobs under that heading that want nursing experience. Believe me, I'm the queen of job searching right now!! 

What is so frustrating is that they don't even give you a chance! If they would just give an interview, at least they can really see who you are....a cover letter and resume can only say so much! Anyone else have any suggestions for us...just to get in the door at entry level, just to be given a chance??

I also want to thank Kelly, you always are there with suggestions and words of encouragement. I just want you to know it's greatly appreciated!!!


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## msbrowning

*Hooray for Kelly!!!*

Yes, Kelly is wonderful. Thank you Kelly for being so wonderful to the group. You are a big help to all of us....


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## KellyCPCCPCO

Awwww schucks guys... Thank you that was sweet...

I always will have the backs of fellow coders.


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## dianam

Hi Kelly L.,

I currently am a stay at home mother and seek employment in a business where I can work from home and can best utilize my experience and knowledge.  Would you mind telling me if they are hiring where you work at?
I saw that your a remote claims auditor. 

Thank you!
Diana


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## KellyCPCCPCO

Diana,
I tried to send you a private msg but it was blocked. I was going to provide u more info on the company I work for.


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## dianam

My e-mail address: dianasoto2006@yahoo.com 

Thanks, so much Kelly.


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## rhodie73

Hi Kelly, 

I too am interested in working from home. Part time is fine with me to start if that is what I need to do. I am a victim of the work from home scams and was interested if you could provide some information on your company or companies that may be hiring to work from home. I appreciate your help. 

Thanks, Rhonda


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## KellyCPCCPCO

I posted under job postings approx 6 new threads that had remote coding positions. Take a look at some of those as I know some such as Outcomes are still hiring.

Good luck and keep me posted on how things go.


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## aries27

That is the point! Employers are not giving new coders with NO experience a chance. It is very said that you have all these tech schools, colleges, AAPC, AHIMA, Coding bootcamp, etc making money off of people who are eager to learn something new and who  pass the required test and then what.NO JOB! This really seems illegal. They promote medical coding like it going out of style. And then no one wants to hire you. It is sad for a lack of better words.


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## mmorningstarcpc

*Suggestion*

I am mentoring a CPC-A and suggested he call a billing service I used to work for.  He was initially turned down.  I told him to call the owner, explain his situation and ask if there was anything he could do.  He has an interview tomorrow for data entry.  Knowing the service, if he proves himself, he will move up pretty fast, gaining experience....

Machelle
CPC, CPC-H, CPC-E/m


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## Judy511

*I too am looking for a job.*

I, too am looking for coding job.  I have sent resumes to about 20 doctor's offices.  I have answered ads in the paper for positions that are entry level. I guess for those positions I was over qualified.  All I want is a chance.  I too would like to know where I can find that chance. It is discouraging but if I can pass the certification exam. I can get a job.  Thanks for all the encouragement. Some days it is needed more than others. If anyone wants to email me you can at Jweil511@aol.com


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## CarolLR

It's not just appretices that are having trouble as you can see from this thread.

I have been in the coding/billing field for over twenty years!  I recently decided to make it "legit" and took and passed the CPC exam.  

Just today I sent a resume to HIMONCALL and got shut down immediately, "We need someone with three years experience."  Experience doing WHAT??!!  Just because I have not held a job sitting for eight hours straight coding charts, doesn't mean I'm not experienced with coding!  Billers use their coding books all day, every day!  Give me a break!

Sorry, just had to get that out.


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## Sonjagirl

I just completed 2-1/2 years of medical insurance billing courses in Woodland Hills, (Los Angeles) California.  I'm trying to get “my foot in the door” as well--in an outpatient facility whether it's in a medical center or a doctor's office. 

Currently, I'm preparing to take the CPC-A exam in October.  I have years of experience working as an Executive Administrative Assistant/Legal Transcriber, but it's very difficult to get in the medical field as a coder without medical experience and certification.  We have to start somewhere.  This is very frustrating, because years ago my friends learned on the job as a temporary employee without any formal training from school.  Then they were hired permanently, and to this day they aren't certified.

If there's a demand in coding, why is it that we're being shut out?  I've even heard from those who took the certification exam that it's too advanced from what we were taught in school.  My former classmate told me that “our teachers need to get connected with some hospital sources or medical groups that know coding and can give them some inside operating reports or real life scenarios or something to be taught in class . . . because some of them including teachers have to take the certification exam several times in order to pass it.”  I was shocked when I heard this, because we had so much work in school and it was overwhelming, plus they studied Carol Buck's study guide months in advanced and did well on the sample exams. 

AAPC is well aware of this, and they agree that the certification exam is too advanced.  They received many complaints about the exam.

Now there are coding books that are pretty advanced, and I'm working with those.  Then there are the $149 CEU classes and audio tapes, but basically I was told it consists of things we already learned--which is a lot of book reading.  Then there are low cost CEU courses.  

I don't mean to be "long winded," but I just think a change needs to come, because I need to start working as a coder soon.


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## Icode4U

*Exam*

The exam is easy to pass if you use the AAPC study guides.  My study group had 100% pass rate.  My office currenly has an intern that took classes at a Junior college, her books are telling her different information than the AAPC study guides. She was taught one way and we all were taught another way that is supported by CMS, NCCI, CPT and ICD-9 guidelines.  She thinks she is correct and won't conform, which makes her useless.  Someone is always checking her work.   If you want to pass a test given by the AAPC, you need to study AAPC information.  Coders are hard to find.  Many of our applicants past work experience is being a bartender, hair dresser, waitress.  These are all great honest livings, however they do not have the medical back ground.  If I were to give advice, I would say to become a Medical Assistant, Medical office worker of some kind, so you have that to show up on your past work experience.  Volunteer at a hospital in medical records.  Get exposure.   There are thousands of coding jobs out there.  There are thousands of coders that do not know what they are doing.  Unfortunately, wrong coding coudl have punitive consequences for coders, and physicians.  Huge Liability.


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## FTessaBartels

*Too Advanced?*

Sonjagirl, 
You write: _AAPC is well aware of this, and they agree that the certification exam is too advanced. _

I beg to differ. The test is *NOT* _too _advanced.  It is not easy, but then it shouldn't be. AAPC does review comments on the exams, and statistical evidence that questions on the exam may be incorrect; and those questions are later deleted and/or exam results corrected. 

But that doesn't mean the test is too advanced. And AAPC has certainly never "agreed" that it is. 

I realize that it's very frustrating to have studied for two years and still feel that you are not prepared.  Remember that John Kennedy Jr had to take his bar exam 3 times before he passed, and no one ever said he didn't study in law school. 

Get the AAPC study guide and practice exam. Prepare yourself for a challenging 5-hour exam. Get a good night's rest the night before and go into the exam knowing it will be difficult, but that you are well-prepared. 

As for needing experience - follow Icode4U's suggestions about getting your foot in the door. Work as a transcriptionist, an admin assistant, a medical records clerk, some entry-level position that will give you the exposure to the field and the opportunity to learn more.  Many of us did not start out as "coders;" we worked our way up into those positions. 

Good luck to you.
F Tessa Bartels, CPC, CPC-E/M


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## mmorningstarcpc

In response to the comment from above:

"AAPC is well aware of this, and they agree that the certification exam is too advanced. They received many complaints about the exam."

I believe AAPC knows the exam is hard, but it is to test your knowledge.  It certainly isn't a gimme.  I am sure they have rec'd complaints, that doesn't mean they "agree that its too advanced." I have never heard this, and I dont believe this comment.

Frankly, For my CPC and CPC-H I got the study guide (ISP modules for "H" also).  If you know the questions in the study guide and/or ISP modules questions, AND you know your guidelines, it is a hard exam, but its a fair exam.  It is life in the real world. There was no study guide when I took my E/M exam.  I passed each exam the first time.  I took it way serious, worked with my resources above and my coding books and worried a lot (LOL).

Also, a lot of schools now days are promising people lots of money with no experience.  If you cant get a job right out of school, that is not AAPCs fault, its the schools.  Its probably nothing to school if you get a job or not, they already have your money.

Sorry if I am ranting, my 2 cents worth.  And remember, the CPC is the gold standard, it should be worth more!!!

Machelle
CPC, CPC-H, CPC-E/M


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## Sonjagirl

FTessaBartels said:


> Sonjagirl,
> *You write: AAPC is well aware of this, and they agree that the certification exam is too advanced*_. _
> 
> I beg to differ. The test is *NOT* _too _advanced.  It is not easy, but then it shouldn't be. AAPC does review comments on the exams, and statistical evidence that questions on the exam may be incorrect; and those questions are later deleted and/or exam results corrected.
> 
> But that doesn't mean the test is too advanced. And AAPC has certainly never "agreed" that it is.
> 
> I realize that it's very frustrating to have studied for two years and still feel that you are not prepared.  Remember that John Kennedy Jr had to take his bar exam 3 times before he passed, and no one ever said he didn't study in law school.
> 
> Get the AAPC study guide and practice exam. Prepare yourself for a challenging 5-hour exam. Get a good night's rest the night before and go into the exam knowing it will be difficult, but that you are well-prepared.
> 
> As for needing experience - follow Icode4U's suggestions about getting your foot in the door. Work as a transcriptionist, an admin assistant, a medical records clerk, some entry-level position that will give you the exposure to the field and the opportunity to learn more.  Many of us did not start out as "coders;" we worked our way up into those positions.
> 
> Good luck to you.
> F Tessa Bartels, CPC, CPC-E/M



My former classmate wrote the bolded information by e-mail. Then we talked on the phone for hours.  I haven't had a chance to take the exam yet.  All the comments above, came from her and others I personally know such as a consultant from Maxim.  She test coders, and she told me out of 60 that she tested at her agency, about 2 passed--even though they passed all their classes at school.  Thanks for your input.


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## Sonjagirl

mmorningstarcpc said:


> In response to the comment from above:
> 
> "*AAPC is well aware of this, and they agree that the certification exam is too advanced. They received many complaints about the exam."*
> I believe AAPC knows the exam is hard, but it is to test your knowledge.  It certainly isn't a gimme.  I am sure they have rec'd complaints, that doesn't mean they "agree that its too advanced." I have never heard this, and I dont believe this comment.
> 
> Frankly, For my CPC and CPC-H I got the study guide (ISP modules for "H" also).  If you know the questions in the study guide and/or ISP modules questions, AND you know your guidelines, it is a hard exam, but its a fair exam.  It is life in the real world. There was no study guide when I took my E/M exam.  I passed each exam the first time.  I took it way serious, worked with my resources above and my coding books and worried a lot (LOL).
> 
> Also, a lot of schools now days are promising people lots of money with no experience.  If you cant get a job right out of school, that is not AAPCs fault, its the schools.  Its probably nothing to school if you get a job or not, they already have your money.
> 
> Sorry if I am ranting, my 2 cents worth.  And remember, *the CPC is the gold standard*, it should be worth more!!!
> 
> Machelle
> CPC, CPC-H, CPC-E/M



These are comments from those who have taken the exam.  Now I do know a few who passed it, but they did say it wasn't easy.  Only one said it was easy.  They took it before 2008. I heard that 2008 exam is much harder than the previous exams.  

I thought AHIMA was the gold standard.  That's what I've been told by various teachers.

I appreciate all of your comments.  Thanks for the feedback.


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## Sonjagirl

Icode4U said:


> *The exam is easy to pass if you use the AAPC study guides.  *My study group had 100% pass rate.  My office currenly has an intern that *took classes at a Junior college*, her books are telling her different information than the AAPC study guides. She was taught one way and we all were taught another way that is supported by CMS, NCCI, CPT and ICD-9 guidelines.  She thinks she is correct and won't conform, which makes her useless.  Someone is always checking her work.   If you want to pass a test given by the AAPC, *you need to study AAPC information.*  Coders are hard to find.  Many of our applicants past work experience is being a bartender, hair dresser, waitress.  These are all great honest livings, however they do not have the medical back ground.  If I were to give advice, I would say to become a Medical Assistant, Medical office worker of some kind, so you have that to show up on your past work experience.  Volunteer at a hospital in medical records.  Get exposure.   There are thousands of coding jobs out there.  There are thousands of coders that do not know what they are doing.  Unfortunately, wrong coding coudl have punitive consequences for coders, and physicians.  Huge Liability.



How long were her classes?  I have the book by AAPC, but it has Carol Buck's input in it, which I was told by AAPC that it is the same as the one they sell; just a different cover and it also has Carol Buck's input.  The formal name of the study guide is 2008 CPC Coding Exam Review - The Certification Step by Carol J. Buck.  This is the one my teacher studied from and passed, and this is the one she recommended to us.  

Plus, I have the Extra Step work book with a CD.  I find the exercises very challenging than the ones in class.  Fortunately, the answers and rational are provided.  I have other coding training books as well (with the answers), so I've been at this for quite a while.

I didn't go to a private school in Los Angeles, because I wanted longer classes (more than a year).  I didn't want to rush through them.  However, my coding teachers are certified--one with her own medical insurance billing company, and the other is also certified.  Both have been in the medical field for quite a long time, plus one also teaches at a private school.   She's really good, and gives us so much work that it's overwhelming.  Incidentally, she feels that the private school where she teaches doesn't offer "in-depth coding" like our public school.


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## HCCCoder

Project extern would be a great help for those of you, who want to get some experience. I know, it is sad, you have to work for free, but you get hands on experience every day basis. And after that, when they like you, most of the time, you will get hired. Hope things will go well with you guys.
Why don't you study for CCS too and take the exam? AHIMA does not have "CCS-A". The exam is much much harder, but worth it. You will have lots more doors open, when you get your CCS certification too.

And remember, it is NOT always easy to find the first job. I had to work for free part-time project extern job, for 4 months. It was not easy, but, luckily, I got hired afterwards. Don't expect to get paid more than $17-18 per hour, if you are new. Just you have to think ahead and tell yourself, "this is just the start". 
Lilit


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## csenn

*In search of a coding job*

Well, I see that I am not alone on the jobless front. I graduated from a Billing & Coding program in March of this year and still do not have a job. I will be taking the CPC exam real soon. I thought getting certified would be my in for a job. However, after reading these threads I see that is not the case. I still will not have that much needed work experience that every employer wants. I have also applied for reception and clerical positions hoping that would be an in. So far, no luck. I want to keep trying, but it does get you down. I live in a large medical community also. I feel your pain.

Cathy,
hibiscus53@hotmail.com


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## Sonjagirl

lmartirosyan said:


> Project extern would be a great help for those of you, who want to get some experience. I know, it is sad, you have to work for free, but you get hands on experience every day basis. And after that, when they like you, most of the time, you will get hired. Hope things will go well with you guys.
> Why don't you study for CCS too and take the exam? AHIMA does not have "CCS-A". The exam is much much harder, but worth it. You will have lots more doors open, when you get your CCS certification too.
> 
> And remember, it is NOT always easy to find the first job. I had to work for free part-time project extern job, for 4 months. It was not easy, but, luckily, I got hired afterwards. Don't expect to get paid more than $17-18 per hour, if you are new. Just you have to think ahead and tell yourself, "this is just the start".
> Lilit



I sent my resume to every organization listed for this city, and I haven't heard from anyone.  Also, I read the same complaint from another member who lives here.  This is quite discouraging and sad.


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## Sonjagirl

csenn said:


> Well, I see that I am not alone on the jobless front. I graduated from a Billing & Coding program in March of this year and still do not have a job. I will be taking the CPC exam real soon. *I thought getting certified would be my in for a job. However, after reading these threads I see that is not the case. I still will not have that much needed work experience that every employer wants. I have also applied for reception and clerical positions hoping that would be an in. *So far, no luck. I want to keep trying, but it does get you down. I live in a large medical community also. I feel your pain.
> 
> Cathy,
> hibiscus53@hotmail.com



It was as if you took the words right out of my mouth, or if you read my mind.    There is a demand for coders, and I live in a large city, but that doesn't guarantee a job--it was this way years ago, but not now.   I wonder if it's this way for New Yorkers.  Are there any New Yorkers out there?  If so, please provide your input.  We need to hear your experience.


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## mshukis

I know from personal experience with a couple of different employers, some will hire with no experience and some make no exceptions to this requirement.  You just have to keep applying.  A positive, confident attitude, for those with no experience, may be what it takes to be given that first chance.  With time and perseverance you will eventually get your foot in the door.  I wish you all the best of luck, hold your heads high and don't give up if this is what you really want!


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## mshukis

Icode4U said:


> The exam is easy to pass if you use the AAPC study guides.  My study group had 100% pass rate.  My office currenly has an intern that took classes at a Junior college, her books are telling her different information than the AAPC study guides. She was taught one way and we all were taught another way that is supported by CMS, NCCI, CPT and ICD-9 guidelines.  She thinks she is correct and won't conform, which makes her useless.  Someone is always checking her work.   If you want to pass a test given by the AAPC, you need to study AAPC information.  Coders are hard to find.  Many of our applicants past work experience is being a bartender, hair dresser, waitress.  These are all great honest livings, however they do not have the medical back ground.  If I were to give advice, I would say to become a Medical Assistant, Medical office worker of some kind, so you have that to show up on your past work experience.  Volunteer at a hospital in medical records.  Get exposure.   There are thousands of coding jobs out there.  There are thousands of coders that do not know what they are doing.  Unfortunately, wrong coding coudl have punitive consequences for coders, and physicians.  Huge Liability.




I passed the AAPC CPC exam the first try and I did not study AAPC info.  I agree that that the co-worker you speak of needs to adhere to your company policies in order for her to learn compliance, become independant and no longer have her work monitored.  However, I believe there is much more to knowing and implementing the ever-changing rules and guidelines, than studying information from a certain resource.  Our success depends on how much effort we put forth into learning, and staying current with these policies and regulations.  I think you are right, there are many coders who do not know what they are doing (I personally know a few), I am sure there are also some who have current jobs such as bartender, waitress, hair dresser, who would do a better job than some of the coders who currently hold that title.  I do not agree that someone should not join the "coding force" just because they don't have a medical background.  Didn't all of us start out with no medical background at some point?  I understand how frustrating it can be to work with someone you don't see eye to eye with but I think everyone who has the heart and will to become a coder should be given a chance.  With proper guidance, training, education, and time, some applicants with no experience may be excellent coders.  Employers need to give people a chance, heavily monitor their work, weed out the bad and keep the good.  My heart goes out to all of those who have posted their hardships, unable to land a coding job because they don't have any experience.  Keep trying!!!


----------



## Sonjagirl

mshukis said:


> *I know from personal experience with a couple of different employers, some will hire with no experience and some make no exceptions to this requirement. * You just have to keep applying.  A positive, confident attitude, for those with no experience, may be what it takes to be given that first chance.  With time and perseverance you will eventually get your foot in the door.  I wish you all the best of luck, hold your heads high and don't give up if this is what you really want!




Do we have to be certified?   Where are they located?


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## HCCCoder

Sonjagirl said:


> I sent my resume to every organization listed for this city, and I haven't heard from anyone.  Also, I read the same complaint from another member who lives here.  This is quite discouraging and sad.



Sonjagirl,
Click on the following link 
https://www.aapc.com/education/project-xtern-locate.aspx
and search for a project around your city and state. 
Not all the time you will get paid, but, at least, you will gain the experience. 
And most of the time, if the employer likes you, they will hire you. 
Just be confident, have a positive attitute and work hard.
Hope, this was helpfull


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## Sonjagirl

lmartirosyan said:


> Sonjagirl,
> Click on the following link
> https://www.aapc.com/education/project-xtern-locate.aspx
> and search for a project around your city and state.
> Not all the time you will get paid, but, at least, you will gain the experience.
> And most of the time, if the employer likes you, they will hire you.
> Just be confident, have a positive attitute and work hard.
> Hope, this was helpfull



Thanks, but the organizations that I sent my resume to were found in the Project X-tern arena.  I'm thinking about volunteering in a big hospital as an administrative assistant to get my "foot in the door."


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## Sonjagirl

Once again, comments from New Yorkers are needed regarding employment opportunities.   Do you have a hard time finding a job with or without experience?  If so, we need the encouragement.  Things don't look bright for us in Los Angeles.


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## Sonjagirl

About once every other month, I view this website called Biohealthmatics.com.  It shows the medical coding jobs available in each state.  The figures change but I don't know how often.  

Things don't look bright throughout the United States, and California always have more coding jobs than the other states even though the figures are low like around 30. 

Four years ago a classmate said to our teacher:  “We don't see that many openings.”   I agree because I didn't see many openings either.  I'm wondering why do I see statements from the school's schedule of classes and websites saying that there is a demand for medical coders if this is the case?


----------



## HCCCoder

Sonjagirl said:


> Thanks, but the organizations that I sent my resume to were found in the Project X-tern arena.  I'm thinking about volunteering in a big hospital as an administrative assitant to get my "foot in the door."



Sonjagirl,
Why don't you call and speak to someone? Back then, I did and the first person who I spoke to was willing to accept me through project xtern. 
Don't bother sending them your resume, just call them. 
Take 1 or 2 days off, dress professionaly and walk in to hospitals, clinics asking for a coding job. It is not easy to find the first job. 
I moved to NY 8 months ago from CA and was having difficulties finding a good, permanent job. Thank God, I did find my current job as a Clinical Coding Analyst. That's what I would do. I would walk into clinics and hospitals asking for a coding job. 
There is a famous saying, if you look for someting, you will find. 
Lilit


----------



## Sonjagirl

lmartirosyan said:


> Sonjagirl,
> Why don't you call and speak to someone? Back then, I did and the first person who I spoke to was willing to accept me through project xtern.
> Don't bother sending them your resume, just call them.
> Take 1 or 2 days off, dress professionaly and walk in to hospitals, clinics asking for a coding job. It is not easy to find the first job.
> I moved to NY 8 months ago from CA and was having difficulties finding a good, permanent job. Thank God, I did find my current job as a Clinical Coding Analyst. That's what I would do. I would walk into clinics and hospitals asking for a coding job.
> There is a famous saying, if you look for someting, you will find.
> Lilit



I have followed through by calling hospitals or medical centers that have advertised an opening for medical receptionist, administrative assistant, or medical records, etc.  I'm not certified yet.  I'm scheduled to take the exam next month.  It's not as if I don't have any work experience at all.  It's just that I don't have any significant experience in the medical field.

Also, I just found out from John of AAPC that the X-tern facilities were bombarded with a lot of applicants who aren't certified yet.  Now according to AAPC's website, it did state that if we were scheduled to take the exam, then it would be okay to contact these X-tern facilities by e-mail or phone, submitting resumes, etc.  However, the rules have changed.

Now I can't even log onto these X-tern facilities until after I'm certified.  Well, that's okay.  That's just one less step I have to deal with for now.

I would move to New York, but I don't have relatives there and my friends aren't dependable.  They say one thing and do another.  I cannot afford to stay in a hotel or get an apartment unless I get my sister to move down there with me.  Her situation is a lot better than mine.  Since I've been laid off, I've been working part time.  

I'm just glad Los Angeles is behind New York as far as jobs are concerned.  Chicago is after Los Angeles--New York City, Los Angeles, and Chicago (in that order).  Things could be worse for me.  At least I'm surviving.

Thanks for your input.


----------



## Marion Johnson

I have an Associate Degree in Medical Insurance Billing and coding. I have been on numerous of job interview. But I don't have enough experience for a job. I have been certified since 2006. I passed the CPC test before i graduated from college. I was advised that it was easy to get a job and there are plenty of opening in medical billing and coding. I had my externship about 4 months ago. After going through many different challenges. I called my teacher from the college and got the help to do my externship. The AAPC or my local chapter were dead ends for  me also. I live in Orlando and there isn't a externship site for the AAPC here. You must move away from Orlando to get lucky. I even change my address to a Jacksonville address and No one answered me either. So I am going to pray for a change and hope for success.





ttsaunders1 said:


> I have been searching for a coding job for over 5 years.  I have an associate's degree in MOT and I am now a CPC.  I am still searching for a job.  I have done externship with an AAPC accredited company.  Still there are no jobs available in my state for those with no experience.  What can we do as a community to change this.  I spoke with the president in my local chapter.  She speaks as if we can not change the way things are.  I believe that we can if we all pull together and work hard for what we believe in.  I want to know is there anyone else out there that is having this same issue.  I know of several other people in my area.  Someone please help me to change this.  I am not going to give up.  Though at times I do get a little discouraged about this.  I am 30 year old single mother of three and in dyer need of a job with a lasting career in the medical coding field.  I have many other talents but they are not a challenge to me only this medical field is my biggest challenge.  So if you hear me, feel me and understand me help me please! We are counting on helping hands and those of you who are having this same issue.  To push this through all states around the world to give people that do not have experience to give them the opportunity to gain experiene with varies companies besides just dong volunteer work which is a great thing.  But after you have taking that step where do you go from there.  I have been faxing my resume, posting my resume and building my resume.   I am not looking for a hand out just a breakthrough.  I will work hard for what I believe in and this is something that I will work hard for to change.  I just need people on y side and to help shjow me the way.  Thanks
> Tanisha Saunders Atlanta, Georgia native.   I can be contacted through email: ttsaunders1@bellsouth.net.  DESPERATELY SEEKING FOR ANSWER


----------



## Debby Herbert

*Tips on helping to find entry level coding jobs*

I am a fiver year certified coder now and I also did find it difficult at first to find my first job, maybe it was mostly luck, so not sure there but it has been straight up since then in pay and opportunities.

I recommend anyone trying to get started in coding to accept any related position in a medical office, the first choice being billing job, assuming you have some billing education. Billing will always help in your job as a coder and employers know this. Even a receptionist job can work into coding as long as you mention that is your goal. Also, if you can, consider relocating, which will really expand your options. Hope this helps, hang in there if this is what you want to do.

Debby H.


----------



## debera.lewis

*Reply to your cry for help*

[I understand what you are going through.  Are you close to a military post.  The only requirement is that you are certified.  No expeience is necessary.  You are trained on the job.  Hope this helps.  Keep doing what you are doing.   Respectfully,  Debera




QUOTE=ttsaunders1;8937]I have been searching for a coding job for over 5 years.  I have an associate's degree in MOT and I am now a CPC.  I am still searching for a job.  I have done externship with an AAPC accredited company.  Still there are no jobs available in my state for those with no experience.  What can we do as a community to change this.  I spoke with the president in my local chapter.  She speaks as if we can not change the way things are.  I believe that we can if we all pull together and work hard for what we believe in.  I want to know is there anyone else out there that is having this same issue.  I know of several other people in my area.  Someone please help me to change this.  I am not going to give up.  Though at times I do get a little discouraged about this.  I am 30 year old single mother of three and in dyer need of a job with a lasting career in the medical coding field.  I have many other talents but they are not a challenge to me only this medical field is my biggest challenge.  So if you hear me, feel me and understand me help me please! We are counting on helping hands and those of you who are having this same issue.  To push this through all states around the world to give people that do not have experience to give them the opportunity to gain experiene with varies companies besides just dong volunteer work which is a great thing.  But after you have taking that step where do you go from there.  I have been faxing my resume, posting my resume and building my resume.   I am not looking for a hand out just a breakthrough.  I will work hard for what I believe in and this is something that I will work hard for to change.  I just need people on y side and to help shjow me the way.  Thanks 
Tanisha Saunders Atlanta, Georgia native.   I can be contacted through email: ttsaunders1@bellsouth.net.  DESPERATELY SEEKING FOR ANSWER[/QUOTE]


----------



## mmorningstarcpc

debera,

Your information is not entirely correct.  I worked as a contract coder at a military treatment facility and for our position we had to have three years experience along with certification.  Some military coding may not require experience, but it is not across the board.

Machelle
CPC, CPC-H, CPC-E/M


----------



## JenkinsK

I am also going through the same thing here in Los Angeles, California. I have been certified for almost a year now, yet I have an A on my license for Apprentice. No company wants to hire me without the work experience, nor allow me to volunteer to gain experience. I have no idea what to do, but I am not going to give up. This is what I went to school for, and this is what I want my career to be.


----------



## babsgb2003

My main suggestion to all of you who have not been able to find coding positions is to network, network, network.  I am all sure that most of you have heard "it is not what you know, but who you know."  I know someone who works at a facility in Georgia in the coding department.  She told me that if I ever move to Georgia, that she would help me get into her company.  I am already in the HIM field,and just recently got my cpc; but I wholeheartedly believe that one of the best avenues to landing your first job is getting to know, and talking to as many people that you can: people at the chapter meetings, former instructers, etc.  Also, another excellent way to land a coding positions is getting your foot in the door at any heathcare facility whether working as a receptionist, clerk, etc.  and working your way into a coding position that way--Alot of places hire from within first.  My coding position came about when my facility had an opening for coders under the upward mobility program where, after hire, you are formally trained; but this job was posted only for in-house employees.  So, give it try!!


----------



## okiesawyers

mmorningstarcpc said:


> debera,
> 
> Your information is not entirely correct.  I worked as a contract coder at a military treatment facility and for our position we had to have three years experience along with certification.  Some military coding may not require experience, but it is not across the board.
> 
> Machelle
> CPC, CPC-H, CPC-E/M



Debera,

I have to agree with Machelle.  I worked as a contract coder and auditor at a MTF and we had to have at least 2 years experience along with the CPC certification.  I would be interested to know what base and branch of the military you are talking about.  It's a bit more difficult to get in with the military and they have their own guidelines for you to follow.


----------



## Cottrell

*military coding*

I think she is talking about coding for the goverment, not contract work. They only require a certification, it is up to the supervisor to determine if experience it requried or not. I used to hold a GS (government service) coding position in the military when it switched over from a contract. Our boss hired billers who had thier certification. Military coding is totally different from civilian, so it's takes a while to "switch gears" as it were. If you go to usajobs.gov you can do a job search. The pay is really good.


----------



## mmorningstarcpc

Military coding is the same where I worked, and for the MTFs in the area, for contract or GS.  Also, some MTF only have contract coders.  You still have to have experience.  It may vary from each individual MTF.  I have a friend that is head of a large MTF coding program and her staff needs experience also.  I think those people saying go to a MTF, you dont need experience...
are giving false hope to people.  Yes, I hope they can find something too, but I dont think military coding is an "across the board" answer for those with no experience. 

Machelle
CPC, CPC-H, CPC-E/M


----------



## okiesawyers

I agree Machelle!


----------



## abgunn22@yahoo.com

ttsaunders1 said:


> I have been searching for a coding job for over 5 years.  I have an associate's degree in MOT and I am now a CPC.  I am still searching for a job.  I have done externship with an AAPC accredited company.  Still there are no jobs available in my state for those with no experience.  What can we do as a community to change this.  I spoke with the president in my local chapter.  She speaks as if we can not change the way things are.  I believe that we can if we all pull together and work hard for what we believe in.  I want to know is there anyone else out there that is having this same issue.  I know of several other people in my area.  Someone please help me to change this.  I am not going to give up.  Though at times I do get a little discouraged about this.  I am 30 year old single mother of three and in dyer need of a job with a lasting career in the medical coding field.  I have many other talents but they are not a challenge to me only this medical field is my biggest challenge.  So if you hear me, feel me and understand me help me please! We are counting on helping hands and those of you who are having this same issue.  To push this through all states around the world to give people that do not have experience to give them the opportunity to gain experiene with varies companies besides just dong volunteer work which is a great thing.  But after you have taking that step where do you go from there.  I have been faxing my resume, posting my resume and building my resume.   I am not looking for a hand out just a breakthrough.  I will work hard for what I believe in and this is something that I will work hard for to change.  I just need people on y side and to help shjow me the way.  Thanks
> Tanisha Saunders Atlanta, Georgia native.   I can be contacted through email: ttsaunders1@bellsouth.net.  DESPERATELY SEEKING FOR ANSWER


I know exactly how you feel about not being able to get a coding job. Since I have finished school at North Georgia Technical College in Clarkesville, GA in March of this year taking coding classes it's been very hard for me to find a job as well. I know I haven't been looking as long as you have, but it is still frustrating. I have applied at many places which have turned me down each time due to no experience. I don't understand how you can get experience in the medical field if no one will hire you and give you a chance. I to have talked with someone in my local chapter with not much sucess. I have been getting my resume out there as much as possible which can only help you. Whatever you do don't give up on your dream to do coding someday. A lot of times knowing someone already in the field can help you get in. If you know someone like that ask them to please help you it can't hurt to try. Most of all just trust God to help you. I know he will not let you down.

Alan Gunn, Demorest, GA


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## coder25

I agree with networking to help find a position in coding.  I have a friend who is a coder and works for a general surgery office.  She helped me to study and be able to obtain my CPC-A.  When a position opened up in the office, she recommended me to the manager, as I just found out that I passed the exam.  So it really is about who you know.  I am so thankful to my friend for recommending me to her manager, so that I may gain valuable experience with surgical coding.  Keep trying.  I hope that you are able to find someone who will be willing to train a newbie.


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## adwood68

*Chin up*

First of all supply and demand is driving this problem. The market is flooded with coders. That is the bad news for new coders and us experienced coders as well. Having given you the bad news...let me offer some tips for standing out to coding employers. (I have actually been involved in the hiring process for many coders)

1.  Become an expert on something. Here are some areas where expertise will pay off for you:
      E/M coding -  learn all there is to know about the 1995 and 1997 E/M guidelines. Look for AAPC workshops in your area where chart auditing and documentation guidleines are being taught. It is money well spent. Then put in your cover letter that you have this skill and be willing and ready to prove it with their company coding test. 
     Specialty Coding - find a specialty you love and learn all you can about it. Go on the forums here and read the coding questions that are posted and try to see if you can answer them. You don't have to reply to the forum..just see if you get the same answer that your coding counterparts get. If not then be prepared to ask questions. There are also specialty conferences that you can go to. Keep all of the certificates showing the classes you have attended and put that info on your resume! Once again...if you do get proficient be bold about being willing to take a test to prove it.

I am going to stop here and talk about testing....guys I know you think that once you take the CPC you are done being tested...but that test was just the beginning. Being a coder means that your knowledge will be test every single day. When you get into the field you will be surrounded by other people who will test your skills...physicians will question you ...other coders will go behind you...there will probably be a compliance department that will oversee your work. It is the nature of our business and it is healthy so get used to it now. 

Learn all you can about upcoming changes in coding.  You can get a barometer of this from the Coding Edge. If they bring it up you need to dig into it!  If you can talk about ICD10 and CMS regulations like a pro you can ace an interview!  Know your business!  

And network!  Go to your local chapter meetings. Don't go there and complain about not having a job. Go and shake hands and get business cards and make a good impression. 

Don't be afraid to offer yourself as a temporary coder if you can do that. Offices are forever being short staffed due to maternity leave, and such. You could be a fill in coder. Getting valuable experience and hopefully noticed too!  

Lastly...when you get your foot in the door for the interview...don't blow it. Neat hair, neat nails, modest make up, simple jewelry, wear a suit (preferrably navy, black or gray), bring a copy of your resume, be ready to be tested, make eye contact, give a good handshake.

Now go out there and get them!


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## Sonjagirl

I was told by several sources that there is a demand for coders.   That's why I decided to study medical insurance billing for 2-1/2 years; but I guess with the economy being bad all over the world, everyone is being affected regardless.  I desperately need a coding job.

Also, Adwood68 thanks for your encouragement.  I really appreciate it.  I can tell you were speaking from your heart, and you have a wealth of knowledge and experience "under your belt."


----------



## ScottC314

*Non Medical Consultants*

Has anyone tried to get in with a consulting company that is not, on the surface, a medical consulting company? I'm talking mainly about some of the bigger Public Accounting Firms. Ernst & Young, PriceWaterhouse Coopers, Crowe Chizek, and Plante & Moran all have regional offices and all have some version of a medical/healthcare team. I used to work for one of these big companies and they thrive on people eager to work and already have certifications. Training is done on the job and they give plenty of resources for you to use to be as successful as you want.

Sonjagirl, I know for a fact that all the big Accounting/Consulting firms are very active in LA. You should try there. And don't be discouraged if there's no opportunities on their websites. Call the executive listed and talk with them directly. That's how I got my job.


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## apeck

*coding jobs with public health*

Hi to all you frustrated new coders,
   I know that there are places that will hire an inexperienced coder but the first place and one of the best places to start is your public health department. I stated with the Florida state health department with no experience and didn't even have my certification yet. I just passed my exam in Oct. and started working for them in March, I even failed my first exam(I was so sick I'm was shocked I didn't get kicked out of the exam). They have great benefits and are great to work with. I do chart auditing for ever super bill. I currently get to do everything form adult health, child health, OB antepartum, family planning and GYN. I was trained and I get paid decently. Check with your state employment agency for more information and don't give up. Be assertive and make them see what you can do. Also starting in a medical records position will help(I started working in a jail in medical records and that helped and there are some jails that actually code..not a dream job but a place to start) KEEP SEARCHING DON'T EVER GIVE UP...IT'S UP TO YOU TO SELL YOURSELF!!!


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## Vetonne

Thank you for your encouragement.  It is a paradox that the association wants one to be experienced to be credentialed and the employer wants one to be credentialed before employement.


----------



## ceval13

*coding jobs?*

I am also a recent graduate and CPC-A. I have been looking for about three months now. Can anyone tell me what the roman numerals after coder mean? I have been seeing them alot in my job search.


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## pharmon

ADWOOD you did a great post...!! I need to save that.  Even looking for part time is hard for coders.  I know, I've hunted part time for months before landing one.  I have a full time with benefits, and part time for economy crunch.  However, with that said---I had prior medical background in the insurance industry.  That I believe was my saving grace entering this field.  Otherwise, I would have had lots of money and the 2 yrs in college invested to have been forced to change careers.  If you can get in on the insurance side, it helps.  I know the pay isn't exactly what you may have wanted, or been told in the industry while going to school, and I'm sorry some make it pretty lucriative, when it's not.  They have more insurance claim specialist, or data processing of claims.  I feel it's the beginning for anyone going into this field.  Some area's refuse to go remote, some want remote, and I know when I was in school that's all I wanted---and all I was told by instructors... YOU can work at home... but the truth is, unless you have been in an office, and worked hand in hand day to day doing some sort of medical, you will likely be last for a company to take a chance on.  Sit down with a Sun. newspaper (don't rely just on the net), look at local medical jobs, and see what type of administrative clerical positions, ward clerks, anything that can get you in that door, you will have to do it.  Yes, I've worked jobs I did not particularly care about, or care for the office staff--but I did it for a yr or 2, maybe even 3 yrs just to be able to get the experience to go.  It's a sinking feeling when you have to say you are taking this position to get to the other position your degree or certifications match.  I know, been there, you just grin and bare it all, and suck up all the knowledge, take notes, make your own file system, practice and teach yourself.  I took home difficult reports, and would spend a week working on them to research all my options on that 1 claim just to inform myself to it's coding technique till I felt comfortable asking for more coding in that difficulty, and since I was practicing---they were watched me grow and gladly handed me more.  It's truly not an easy career.  Sorry, I didn't mean the post to go on, but I think people seem to take advantage of the newbies in the field (mainly the schools) who don't prepare them.  With that said, I know a banker with 3 degrees, and he's  doing something totally different than what his degrees are in because of the economy.  Coders aren't the only ones who are having to make due to gain their experience.


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## apeck

Vetonne....It seems like a vicious circle at times..also when you are searching for jobs make sure you search for medical record jobs. If you have an instructor that liked you and seen your potential ask them to write you a letter of recommendation, any little bit helps. I have an Associates in Science for billing and coding and just got my certification..keep trying.


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## vmcgregor

*Entry level positions*

You may want to check back with some of your instructors. One of my instructors teaches a Billing & Insurance course but works out of a local hospital and happens to know someone from a temp agency. The friend asked her to send over her students and they'd love to put them to work!

In short, if your instructors also work at hospitals, clinics, etc they may know of openings in their offices (or offices near by) or may have networked with people that may be able to help you find a job.


----------



## SMercil

*Response to Coding Jobs for inexperienced Coders*

I am having the same problem and it is so frustrating.  I live in Kentucky.  I was told to write a letter to the newspaper explaining the situation.   

I was also told to get a job at the hospital as a unit secretary or anything because they hire within first.  

Well that's all I have to say for now.  LOL to you and anyone else who is in this situation.

Sandy (Wilsan10@insightbb.com)  you can write me anytime.


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## kblevins

amolson1325 said:


> Gail...I share in your frustration!!!!! Have you tried looking under "chart review"? I have seen more coding jobs under that heading that want nursing experience. Believe me, I'm the queen of job searching right now!!
> 
> What is so frustrating is that they don't even give you a chance! If they would just give an interview, at least they can really see who you are....a cover letter and resume can only say so much! Anyone else have any suggestions for us...just to get in the door at entry level, just to be given a chance??
> 
> I also want to thank Kelly, you always are there with suggestions and words of encouragement. I just want you to know it's greatly appreciated!!!


Gail,  I think most all new inexperience coders has had this same problem but let me tell you what worked for me. I just landed a coding non-certified position in Radiology. I took the CPC Exam November 15th and still waiting for results. I have been looking for 2yrs and my husband had a doctors appointment and the nurse asked him if they could do anything else for him, he answer her by saying yes you can give my wife a coding job. I was told to come in but when I got there the front manager blew me off and said she didn't have time to speak with me so I left my resume in a GREEN FOLDER
with all my information. I gave her a week and a half and called back to ask her if she ever had the time to look at my resume.  She ask me was it the one in the green folder and that she had it in her hand just to see what was in the folder. I had another interview with her that after noon. She was only hiring for a receptionist and felt my credential was to high for this position. I told her if she would give me a chance I would start at the bottom and prove to them I had the skills. She said she would get back with me that she thought of another place she knew that needed a coder and she would talk to that doctor and it would be closer to my home. The doctor she had talk to gave me a call and interviewed me yesterday,I GOT THE JOB!! My point is networking, I did not know this women from my husband doctors office but because I was so determine to just get in the back door word of mouth ended me a job. So my advise ask your family,friends or your on doctor office to check around for you and go door to door put your resume in instead of online. I did all of my resumes online for 2 yrs and did not get me anywhere. I think a lot of places don't even bother to put ads in the paper or online because as it was done for me it was networking or word of mouth. Also with my college I attended and graduated from for so many clocked hours of studies they give me a one year wavier of experience to add in and a letter of recommendation from my college guidance counselor. I don't know if you took any classes in coding but you could get this wavier from your school. I had 600 clocked hours and I think you only needed 80 not for sure on that. I'm a living proof it can happen. I don't know if you are religious or not but I put all my trust in God.In my believes we ask and we shall receive but in God's time not ours.Patience is the hardest thing to have but hang in there and your time will also come in your path. Good luck I hope some of what I've said will help give you hope.
My prayers are with you, 
Karen Blevins


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## 01101569

Sonjagirl,
Have you applied at Kaiser Permente? Or apply and one of your local hospital, they usually have prn positions.


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## kmess

*You're not ALONE*

You are not alone, I too have been beating the bushes for a job.  I too have a degree and have certification, but can't seem to find a job anywhere.  I am even willing to commute across state lines if I can get someone to let me in the door!  My local chapter doesn't help either, nor did the school I attended which was supposed to help me find a job, especially since I passed the certification test.

Keep trying............


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## Kareddle

Hi,
Who did you work for during those 4 months under the Xtern Program?  Basically the Xtern project doesn't exist in Southern California.  I've been trying since December 2008 to get into the so called Xtern Project.  I've even tried the High Desert (Apple Valley, Redlands locations).  I attend the chapter meetings which are no help.  Every job requires experience.  I have my CPC-A.  I have spent a lot of time and money to get this.  In order to go back to school and get my CCS I need a job to pay for it.  I'm not alone.  The AAPC should be honest with people at this time.  Project Xtern does not exist and their new ad looks good but doesn't tell the truth for people in California.


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## mmorningstarcpc

Kareddle,

A suggestion may be to try to get an office to be a Project Extern site.  When I worked in private practice, we had interns from our local college and we set this up because I knew of some people who needed sites.  I went to this college and I actually did my internship at a hospital 80 miles away.  Maybe you could approach some offices or facilities, explain the program to them and they may be willing to work with you.  I would love to have some externs but my job now is consulting and not a good externship environment at this time.  Good luck to you.


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## Rhonda Buckholtz CPC

I am sorry you feel this way. So that you are aware of our efforts, we have called every single facility in the State of California making them aware of our coders, the AAPC, and Project Xtern. We are doing all that we can to get that word out there. We are working our way through all of the states and have dedicated numerous hours to this. We can not guarantee anyone an Xtern location and have never stated that we could.


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## bbford

*I'm in the same boat.*

Wow, Tanisha I feel your pain. I live in Hampton, VA. I've been doing data entry in a hospital for the past 8 years. I got an AAS degree in Health Information Technology last May. I've since gotten my CPC-A certification and I recently got my RHIT certification from AHIMA and it's definitely hard. I thought since I actually work at a hospital it would have been a little bit easier. That has not been the case for me. I'm a dedicated, hard-working employee. I don't have any coding experience and I don't want to lose all of the wonderful information that I've learned because of lack of use. I definitely understand where you are coming from. It definitely is not easy.


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## Sonjagirl

01101569 said:


> Sonjagirl,
> Have you applied at Kaiser Permente? Or apply and one of your local hospital, they usually have prn positions.



Everyone wants experience.  I've worked in a few medical centers, but not as a coder.


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## CumaMason

There are jobs out there for the inexperienced ones!!! (I hope that gives you more hope than annoyance!  )

 I was fresh out of a course, having problems finding a job in my area. You had to have at least three years experience to work anywhere. It was definintely disheartening. Then I decided to broaden my search area to include places a little bit farther away. Not even a month after I did that, I got a job. The drive is long, and I don't get to see much of my family at all during the week, but we all know it will be worth it in the long run.


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## shortie5801

*Local va jobs*

 Kelly, I just want to say thank you for sharing the information on jobs for Medical Coders. I will take  the CPC exam in two months and was wondering  where to look for jobs,although I have been in the medical field for 12 years. My instructor told me that I should not have any problems finding a job,so I am applying for a position at the local VA. Will keep you posted on the outcome.

[/COLOR]





KellyCPC/CFE said:


> Not sure how close any are located to you but the
> local VA hospitals will hire coders that have just graduated and will train you.
> 
> I know it is frustrating. I have 12 years of coding experience. Once I had my daughter I knew I wanted to stay home and opted to apply for remote coding positions only. Even with my experience and background it took me a full year to find a position.
> 
> Do not give up and stick with it.....


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## rthames052006

I know this "post" has been going on for about a year now but I read every single post all 8 pages!!! I have a theory about these community colleges who "guarantee" students they will get a job right out of school.... I actually taught an ICD-9 class at a community college and one the first night of class I had students telling/asking me about salary, taking the CPC exam you name it they asked... I was very honest with them and they did not like it??? This is the real world and I would not lie to them and tell them yes it's easy to get a job after taking some classes because it is not... I had one of the students report me to my boss for telling her information that differed from what the school had told her.  To make a long story short I finished teaching the class but decided it wasn't for me.  I refuse to tell a student a lie or something that is not "definite" there are no guarantees in life at all??? 

I am now a billing manager for two family practices and I just recently hired a girl right out of school ... why you might ask because I feel everyone deserves a chance to prove themself.  She was so thankful to me for giving her the chance to "try" to "learn" will it work out for her, I hope so and I realize I have alot of work ahead of me training someone fresh out of a billing/coding school but like I said we all deserve a chance, too bad some employers don't see it like that, mind you this position I filled is not a coding position but an entry level billing position.  I actually picked a newbie over a girl who had previous billing experience but left the billing/coding scene back in 2005.

My advice to everyone out there keep plugging away, it will pay off in the end.

Good Luck to you all


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## becka95

I can relate to your post. I was lucky enough to "work" my way into coding. I started literally worked from the bottom.. Working in a hospital on the overnight shift in the ER. Eventually a position opened up in the billing department and I was able to transfer there. I did not take a coding course but learned what I know on the job. There were many people that where hired and there seems to constantly be conflicting information about the coding environment, guidelines, claims etc. 

The number one thing that will make you shine at any interview is your eagerness to LEARN. Express it. Don't be afraid of what you don't know. If you don't know then find the answer. I have worked with many people that are so set in their ways that it gets in the way of the constant changes.  

We are currently looking for someone in our office and the director and I agree on one thing, we want to hire someone with little or no experience. If no experience then at least some exposure. CPC is preferred but not required.If any of you live in the Scranton area and might be looking for a job, we are hiring. It is a billing/coding position. You can visit:

www.cmchealthsys.org

Best of luck to everyone out there!


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## tracyhelget

I am a supervisor of a large medical practice in the midwest. I have hired multiple people with no experience or background. Many of them work out, some don't. We prefer to hire someone with a certification, but not necessarily experienced. So far, in 6 years, we've been able to hire only one certified coder. 

I am also teaching a coding class at the local technical college. And, yes, you get lots of questions about salary. I encourage them to not overlook the entry level positions as these are a foot in the door. 

I have hired some individuals (some with no experience, some with), that complain about the type of work they are doing, that it's not "coding". Whatever position you may hold in a medical practice, it's a job and your coding background and knowledge will only benefit you and the company. Keep at it, maintain your CEU's, be open to an entry level position. Doors will open if you keep an open mind and a positive attitude. 

We currently have three people in our office studying for the CPC. One does follow-up work (researching and appealing denials), one does oncology data entry, one does our internal med coding.

Tracy


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## akittell

Add me to the list of frustrated CPC-As.  I took the AAPC PMCC and passed my CPC exam in June of 06. I work at University of Michigan as a transcriptionist and apply for almost every coding/coding-related job that comes up.  Of the 30+ jobs I've applied for, I've landed only 3 interviews and no job offers, but like the rest of you, I'm not ready to give up yet.  Good luck to all the other CPC-As out there.


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## kwiegscpc

*Me too*

you can add another one to the list, I passed my exam in December of 2008 and am still looking. It's tough to get experience if they won't give you a position, I WILL NOT give up though. It does get you down and out sometimes.


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## becka95

In addition to looking for jobs in coding you may want to look for AR and medical billing. To get a strickly coding position can be difficult without the years of experience. Most coding positions are looking for auditors and documentation specialists. Without the medical billing background, these positions can be extremely difficult. 

Billing and AR follow up fine tunes your coding knowledge. It's challenging and it's a great start for coders to learn from denials and working the insurances. Depending on the area it may not pay as great as a coder but it is a great start.

I wanted to let everyone one know this little piece of advice because I recently interviewed a girl who has only medical receptionist experience and has taken coding courses and passed her CPC. She wanted a strickly coding position, meaning not AR follow up. Unfortunately in my office everyone does a little of everything. We have coders but they register patients, do AR follow up, answer the phones and charge entry. Coding is the primary responsibility but it is needed to perform a lot of the AR follow up and handling patient phone calls. 

So please keep in mind that not all coding jobs are listed as coding. Ours is listed as AR/Physician biller. 

Rebecca


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## dforfar

I know this is an old thread, but I am also a new coder and maybe I can offer hope.  I have my CPC-A and my RHIT and I work at a hospital doing ROI (release of information).  I was just promoted to inpatient coder (I start next week ) although my experience coding in limited to the internships I did for my HIT program and a stint with MedAssurant as a data collector.

I think that attitude has a lot do do with it, attitude and a little luck.  But the key is to work in a medical setting, in any capacity, until something comes open.  Facilities often only post positions internally and will only go public if they do not have any internal applicants.  Even a job in the kitchen will allow you to have access to the internal job postings.

I think a lot of people think that when you earn a coding credential that means that you'll make $20/hr the next day, but that isn't the case.  Often you have to start out at half that, doing things like unit clerk or admitting, before you can move ahead.  (And in a hospital setting there is a need for CPCs--the ones at our facility do physician billing or outpatient services like ER and outpatient surgery.  The inpatient coders are all RHITs, though.)


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## LatoyaAfCrutch

I just passed my exam but have been looking for a job as well but I can't seem to get my foot in the door no where everyone asks for experience and I have tried to get a internship but there is none available in my area. Very job in New York state has asked for it, but no one is willing to give me the opportunity to prove myself. Our school was suppose to help with internships and they got one and gave it to someone without anyone knowing it. So that is it now I have to find a job outside my field to help me take care of my family but I feel like I went to school for nothing.


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## LSingleton

I actually just interviewed for a Jr Coding Position that does not require experience.  I got a call telling me they are checking background and references and they will be in contact.  Hoping this is a positive indication!


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## pattib714@gmail.com

*no jobs issue*

I agree - it seems as if the market is flooded with new coders and the schools and organizations are of no help in finding a entry level job, they are just very happy taking our money.   Maybe we need to hear from the veterans out there - how did they first get started???  I am getting very worried that I picked the right carrier at the wrong time, not only will I never get a chance at  having  even one years experience under my belt now I am hearing scary rumors that EMRs will be eliminating coding positions in the future.  It sounds as if the game is over while I am still sitting on the sidelines, all dressed up and no where to go!


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## RGALVEZ

I got started by volunteering. I know this is not always a viable option for those of us who are already struggling let alone work for free. But, think about this: Are you learning anything sitting at home? You can only submit so many resumes and read so many job "openings". I was hired after 3 weeks. I am sure that the office you volunteer for would be very understanding if you get calls about potential job offers while at work, however, you should always show how professional you are by making sure you are at a point where you can take the call. Even if the place where you volunteer doesn't hire you, you are in the environment that gives you more access to other practices that may be looking but not advertising. Keep a positive attitude and don't give up on your dreams and goals.


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## em2177

I would have to say that there are much more coders out there from when I recieved my certificare (2004). I find that there are not many coding positions as there was back when I first got certified. I do not regret it at all as it has opened many doors for me. I guess the tough economy does not help right now. All of you who are trying to find a coding job, hang in there. I would look into billing, insurance, collections, something of that sort in order to get your foot in the door. A lot of positions that I see are through agencies which would not be a bad idea to start with. Best of luck to all of you who are looking for a coding position!!!


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## joanmurphycpc

*I feel your pain......*

I am just now reading everyones frustration in trying to obtain a career in medical coding.  Well its 2009 now, so I hope everyone has found a job.  
 I am very disappointed in seeking a job in medical coding.  I am a CPC and have 10 years experience in the field.  I had a wonderful job in New York as a senior coder for a physician billing company own by one the largest hospital in NY.  I relocated to Virginia just knowing with my experience, I would have no problem in seeking employment in my field.  Well I was wrong.  The only jobs that seem to be available were for hospital and outpatient coders. One of my specialty was General Surgery-physician based amongst many others.  But no luck. I did find a job as a clinical information coordinator for an organ procurement organization and I love it.  I would not leave my job for anything.  The benefits are good, a flexible schedule and the mission to save lives and restore health gives a wonderful feeling as to why we do what we do.  But I miss coding so much.  That was my first love.  I am now seeking physician coding part-time or to work from home.  I hope I can find something. I feel I am loosing my skills, something I work so hard to get.  I keep up in reading and going to my local chapter meetings, but its nothing like actually coding.  Please help. That why I say, I feel your pain.  I have experience, but the market for a physician coder is no where to be found in this town, Richmond which is the capital of Virginia. Go figure.  So if there is anyone out there who can help me, I would greatly appreciate it.  I am even thinking of starting my own billing company and if there is anyone out there that lives in Richmond area that would be interested, send me a e-mail and lets talk.  
We coders have got to stick together.

Thanks for listening.

Joan M. Murphy, CPC

e-mail:jmm0926@verizon.net


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## mousesmom2006

ttsaunders1 said:


> I have been searching for a coding job for over 5 years.  I have an associate's degree in MOT and I am now a CPC.  I am still searching for a job.  I have done externship with an AAPC accredited company.  Still there are no jobs available in my state for those with no experience.  What can we do as a community to change this.  I spoke with the president in my local chapter.  She speaks as if we can not change the way things are.  I believe that we can if we all pull together and work hard for what we believe in.  I want to know is there anyone else out there that is having this same issue.  I know of several other people in my area.  Someone please help me to change this.  I am not going to give up.  Though at times I do get a little discouraged about this.  I am 30 year old single mother of three and in dyer need of a job with a lasting career in the medical coding field.  I have many other talents but they are not a challenge to me only this medical field is my biggest challenge.  So if you hear me, feel me and understand me help me please! We are counting on helping hands and those of you who are having this same issue.  To push this through all states around the world to give people that do not have experience to give them the opportunity to gain experiene with varies companies besides just dong volunteer work which is a great thing.  But after you have taking that step where do you go from there.  I have been faxing my resume, posting my resume and building my resume.   I am not looking for a hand out just a breakthrough.  I will work hard for what I believe in and this is something that I will work hard for to change.  I just need people on y side and to help shjow me the way.  Thanks
> Tanisha Saunders Atlanta, Georgia native.   I can be contacted through email: ttsaunders1@bellsouth.net.  DESPERATELY SEEKING FOR ANSWER



I have no answer for you BUT want to commend you for your hardwork!!  In a world where so many feel entitled, it is good to hear from someone else who feels that hard work and a dream is the best route!!  Have faith, never give up and keep up the hard work.  It will pay off someday!!!


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## ejl

*coding jobs for inexperienced coders*

Keep trying. About 15 years ago I graduated from a community college 1 year coding course and couldn't get a job. I finally talked my way into a 2 week trial/no pay 4 hours a day job with a small billing company. I told the owner in my interview that I would work FREE and if at the end of the trial she liked my work she would hire me permanent. I got on as full time. Foot in the door and it looked good on my resume. I have also worked for temp agencies. They gave me the experience to learn the computer systems of larger facilities. Once you learn the computer systems of hospitals or ambulatory surgery centers, you are valuable enough for them to hire. Don't pass up billing or collecting jobs for both of these give you an invaluable educational overview of what coding is just a part of. Read medical documentation to keep up your skills. Keep adding to your knowledge.
I now work for a very large consulting company and feel pretty secure.
Good luck and welcome to creative job hunting. Hope this helps.


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## LRKoschoreck

Hi everyone,
I was just browsing the forums and saw how many posts are in this thread  Thought I would share my story on finding a coding job... 

I took a course and became a certified health unit coordinator several years ago, and had the same problem most of you are encountering... no entry level jobs (my only jobs had been at factories or McDonalds at that point), so I ended up taking a call center job while I looked for something better. That experience was enough to get a part time job doing data entry for an insurance company. I decided to go back to school...this time for coding...and ended up with a job at Information on Demand doing release of information in the medical records department of a hospital. When I graduated I was able to land a job working for a group of ER docs because I had some experience with their medical records system. That position only lasted about 6 months before they decided to have an outside company take care of their medical coding and billing. Fortunately I'd developed a good relationship with the physicians, and they asked the company to hire me on as a coder. 

It took a couple years to get here, but I am finally where I want to be. So just hang in there you guys, and take ANY job that can get you even a tiny step closer to coding. Any experience you can get is only going to help you!


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## kikimolnar

*KikiM.*

When I started out years ago.  I was both a MA and a Medical Secretrary. I took a lower paying job to learn how to bill insurance.  It took me two years and self teaching to becoming the Surgical Center's coder.  I was certifed with AAPC when they were still in Chicago, ILL.

When a big hospital bought us out and put the manager in my position. ( She hated coding but wanted to keep her job.)  I went away from the field for many years always missing my career as a coder.

I went thru classes to up date my skills to become certified as a CPC which to me is harder with the E&M codes, internships and all but I already know that I will not have to wait 6month to get my full CPC  because of prior years of coding but I WILL HAVE TO START BACK UP AS a medical biller possibly a referral authorize specialist and work it back up.

This is the reality it always has been.  AAPC has not always been around but it is a must if you are not certified thru AMA or have other degrees.

Love my coding still,
KM


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## sheliaht

That is GREAT.  I have been certified for 5 years and am also not being let in the door, maybe I will try the temp services, I never thought they would give you a chance.  They always seem to want someone with 2-5 years experience and the only thing that I can put on for experience is what I learned in my coding classes, so that's what I put down.  What else can I do?  The Xtern's email address doesn't seem to be working.

S. Turner


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## whoopeedew

I can't find a job anywhere either! I live in San Diego and you would think there would be someone hiring entry level with a city this big!  I went to school, studied hard and got certified, and now I am either under qualified or over qualified!  I am going for billing and would like to work my way up to coding, or do a mixture of both.  I have a background in healthcare, yet all the employers are looking for experience actually doing medical billing. I have easily submitted 60 applications in the last 2 months, with only 2 interviews.  What else can a person do?

The only externship they have through the AAPC is 35 miles away!


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## KristalynAmanda

This thread topic scares me to be honest. I've invested so much money time and effort into becoming a CPC and now I find this thread.  It's very frustrating, I hope the situation changes soon. I wish all those who are job searching all the best!


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## hrojzen

I am so grateful that so many of us are sharing this experience of not being able even to land an interview, coming out of our training.  In another section, I've posted a suggestion that AAPC-sponsored instructors (of the PMCC/Professional Medical Coding Curriculum) be counseled not to admit, into their courses, students who do not have some significant coding experience.  Some PMCC instructors already take this position.  Such a policy would prevent what I think is a looming financial crisis for the MANY of us who begged and borrowed for the tuition to take our PMCC, only then to find that we have no realistic chance of working in coding, because we are not ALREADY experienced coders.  

Sure, some of us may find jobs in billing or reception/scheduling, which, in an occasional case, may lead to a coding opportunity (I'm trying this strategy now, and even this strategy does not seem to work); but to have to wait YEARS before we can put our coding credential to work is not only emotionally crushing, but financially potentially disastrous.

AAPC is a respected and forward-looking organization.  Now is the time for it to acknowledge and DO SOMETHING to address the growing ranks of CPCs who got their credentials through AAPC, and who will probably never work in coding.

Private trade schools are somewhat regulated, regarding the representations they can make to students in order to induce them to lay down tuition for career training.  In this economic recession, though, our government must do lots more to recognize that aggressive marketing of educational programs is on the rise due to the vulnerability of a population forced to retrain after losing work in an established career.  Until the government acts to regulate better, though, we must become much smarter consumers, alas.  AAPC can jump right in and take the lead; but it will be harder for the coding programs linked to for-profit trade schools to be convinced to start toning down their marketing in the medical support professions.

In this vein, I would urge AAPC not only to ask PMCCs to restrict their courses to experienced coders, but also to limit what PMCCs can charge for their courses.  The tuitions vary wildly.  It will be years, for example, before I can repay my family for their generous gift of tuition for my CPC training.  It is humiliating and very stressful for me to see them mystified by my inability to find work now, after completing my program and registering a very high score on the CPC exam.  

I hope to be more constructive next time. . .I'm spending all my waking hours trying to find at least indirect ways to use my CPC-A. . .If something pans out, I'll be back here with updates...


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## JWINGES

TRY GETTING IN THE DOOR TO A MEDICAL OFFICE AS A RECEPTIONIST THEN YOU CAN SHOW MORE OF AN INTEREST AND MOVE INTO THE BILLING AREA.  tHAT IS HOW i STARTED 15 YRS AGO


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## 007CPC

Finding superior coding jobs without going through the trench remains a challenge for not only me but others as well! The conventional way for coders to enter the CODING industry is through starting out as secretaries and billers, but, is that an applicable place for someone entering the industry from an Ivy League School, or someone like me who has been studying in theory now, coding, for seven years; I couldn't imagine, as said in above post, the humiliation..... for coders to score extraordinary on exams, and then be classified as some "average JOEY" the biller copy man, or woman....

I am sure the AAPC will put something together in the future once our country finally implements a new ICD manual. I can't even go and get coding job because so many managers on professional side want me to code things that arn't there...... It is sad to see the way our country operates, and then to look at my fellow country men and women as they LOL....

Sorry to all if I sound like I am LOL in an situation that normally wouldn't evoke a LOL.....


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## gwennie6

I am also seeing that the AAPC needs to make Project Xtern available for those of us who lack experience in the medical field-Period.  I feel the frustration as other do as well.  A fellow coder in my area mentioned that it has taken her 8 months to land a postion-and it's not coding.


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## harrison8160

I am new to this site. I have been in this type of situation before where you have the tools but not the experience and no one is willing to give you the time to get experience. What I did was go to a temp agency. As long as you pass their test they will get you a position; you will be working for them but you will be getting the experience you need as well as a pay check.


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## 007CPC

harrison8160 said:


> I am new to this site. I have been in this type of situation before where you have the tools but not the experience and no one is willing to give you the time to get experience. What I did was go to a temp agency. As long as you pass their test they will get you a position; you will be working for them but you will be getting the experience you need as well as a pay check.



Temp agencies, employment inc., etc.... do not fit the definition of a viable, gainful coding opportuny and they also don't "uphold a higher standard in utilizing medical codes"........ they label billing jobs coding jobs..... which is a sever misunderstanding and waves the red flag for an audit..... every temp agency I go to requires a coder to type 10000kSPH........ and since I have writers hand, that I think is slowely evolving into carpal tunnel...... temp agency do not have the working ideology of humane understanding....


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## m.aponte1@Verizon.net

Thank you for the great advice......


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## dcraven

*New Coders*

Apply for any position - then do it well.  about 26 years ago I began as a receptionist, then moved up to transcription and on to billing and finally into Office manager and then I went for my CPC and stepped into a coding position.  It is not easy - especially if you have not worked in a medical setting.  The best advise - accept what you can get just to get your foot in the door and then prove yourself.


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## Teresa Collins

*New Coders*

Very well said, Debby.  I began in the Medical field as a part-time transcriptionist and then worked as receptionist after graduating from college and later worked in insurance/billing and enojyed it so much that I became a CPC.  The experience you gain along the way will be invaluable when it comes to coding/billing.  Debby is right....it's not easy, but it is well worth it.  

Teresa Collins, CPC


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## kevbshields

Gosh, this post has a lot of information and opinions.

Normally, I try to keep quiet on the issues of graduates finding employment and the difficulty of coding exams.

However, this time I have something to offer.

What novice and new-graduate coders must understand in the hiring process is the mitigating role an HIM or Coding Manager plays.  On one hand, the managers have a vacancy to fill.  Certification probably is required; after all, that seems the defining feature for candidates.  And, that requirement supports and validates that a coder has at least the _minimum_ qualifications for the job duties.

On the other hand, you have Human Resources and Recruiters.  These folks are not schooled to understand coding credentials, education and generally have little insight of the nuances in qualifications for coders.  They must rely on the information supplied to them from the hiring officials.  Human resources may not, for instance, understand the variances of being a CPC and a CPC-P.  If the words in a candidate's Resume do not match the words listed as qualifications on the announcement, that candidate is unlikely to gain interview.  For example, an announcement may request that a coder be "certified" through AAPC or AHIMA.  HR folks likely don't understand what qualifies as "certified"; they may forward non-certified coders' Resumes forward for managerial review.  The point is, your Resume should factually state in detail what your credentials are (e.g., Certified Professional Coder through AAPC).  Take nothing for granted.

I've found that HR can sometimes believe coding managers too stringent in their screening.  I don't necessarily believe that to be the case.  

It's important to also keep in mind that sometimes the hiring officials are actually members of larger hiring groups.  In these models, a board or committee may choose the candidate's salary based on qualifications.  With that being the case, those folks can sometimes (conversely) believe that managers choose "minimally qualified" candidates.

Hiring is a fine line to walk for the selecting officials.  A newly approved position or vacancy is valuable to the hiring organization just as well as to the candidate.  Choosing the right coder takes effort and commitment on both sides.  

I wish you all luck.  It might be wise to look at non-traditional options.  Coders are employed all across healthcare in a variety of positions.  It makes sense to explore those.


----------



## JS235

As you can see, I am very new to this site.  I'm currently studying to take the CPC exam later this year.  Medical is not my background (MBA-business, AS-computer programming), but I find the coding class extremely interesting and always love to learn new things.  I'm not going to delude myself into thinking I can get a coding job easily, but I'm hoping that the CPC designation and my business background will get me into the medical environment.

I actually have only about 15 more years to work before I can officially retire if I wish to.  My main goal is to work until I can't work anymore and I'm hoping that eventually I will find a job where I'll be able to code from home by the time I'm in my early 60's.  

I just want to thank everyone for their information and comments.  I look forward to learning more from everyone on this site.


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## ollielooya

I've kept my eye on this thread ever since it started.  In my case luck and knowing the right person helped me get a foot in the door.  At my age (60) don't have the time to think about creating a long job profile for this new love of my life.  Did that during my tenure as a music teacher for 30+ years.  One must be realistic in their expectations, so my odyssey will be to learn as much as possible for the new job that I do have, hunker down, and be the best employee I can be in this particular specialty for my remaining work years.  Had I started this business 30 years ago, the path would have been much different, but at the moment, I am deeply contented, motivated, and passionate with this first job.---Suzanne E. Byrum, CPC-A


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## harrison8160

*Dont give up*

I just took the exam for CPC a few days ago (8/1/09); but I have been doing A/R in the healthcare field for 9 years. I went on the internet and posted my resume to every job board there was; they should have a job board that helps find jobs in your local area - not only that I sent my resume to every hospital, clinic and urgent care facility within a 50 mile range from my home. I went on many interviews.  I received a call from a hospital that I sent my resume to months ago. I was blessed with an offer for a  coding job because I was taking the test. I start the job 8/17/09 and I pray I past the exam..


----------



## ssullivan

I am one of the lucky ones I guess.  I replied to an inquiry for experienced professional coders and had just recently passed certification for CPC.  I decided that it would not hurt to apply for the job and I was offered it!  I have now been working for the same practice for over a year and have gained the experience.  My suggestion is to not overlook jobs that are looking for "experienced" coders because you may have other qualities that make you an asset to the company and are willing to train you for the rest. Best of luck to you and don't overlook your hidden qualities.  SS


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## hrojzen

Wonderful to be reading reports of success. . .Harrison8160, can you share whether the hospital position you got is for inpatient DRG/ICD-9-oriented coding?  Or, rather, is your new position a continuation of your focus on AR coding, which, I assume, was more physician-service-oriented. . .I've lately noticed that the coding world seems to be demarcated clearly along lines of either CCS/DRG coding or CPC/AR coding, but possibly I am oversimplifying?


----------



## harrison8160

hrojzen said:


> Wonderful to be reading reports of success. . .Harrison8160, can you share whether the hospital position you got is for inpatient DRG/ICD-9-oriented coding?  Or, rather, is your new position a continuation of your focus on AR coding, which, I assume, was more physician-service-oriented. . .I've lately noticed that the coding world seems to be demarcated clearly along lines of either CCS/DRG coding or CPC/AR coding, but possibly I am oversimplifying?



Outpatient. The hospital outpatient clinic's use to have a agency doing all the a/r and coding work but they bought it in house back in May or June of this year. There is a total of 9 clinic's. The majority focuses on Orthopedic surgery, but there is also Vascular surgery, and internal med.


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## michellelgrd

hospitals & private practices alike should ban together with the career colleges and offer internship programs


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## vwaner

*I lucked out on finding a job.*

I graduated from a tech school in Kansas this last Jan. I didn't look for a job right away because I was pregnant but in Jan I did post my resume on Career Builder and I got many phone calls for interviews. I didn't interview with a job until July and I got the job. Now I'm a coder/biller for a hospital's sepciality clinics. I going for my speciality creds after the first of the year. I believe I am grossly under paid but I am a CPC-A and I still don't know how I landed this job. I work by myself and I am the only coder for the clinics. Also, I audit some hospitalist once a month and I do inpt coding as well. It was a lot to take in when I first started but now everything is going smoothly now. I would like to take on a second job working from home but I can't seem to find anything. I'm happy with my job even though I was just kind of thrown in the mix and under paid but I could not have a job right now. I look at this job as getting my feet wet in the medical field because I'm not going to stay here.


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## michaelrcpc

Truth be told, experience is the key because providers dont want to be held liable for an error in the office. I speak at many coding and billing schools and I tell them like it is, it's going to be hard to land that first job but there are many ways to get in as most companies hire from within. Try temp agencies, network at your meetings, get yourself some liability insurance and use that as a tool and the number one thing I tell them. Start at the bottom if you have to. If there is a lower end position that is open apply for it because if you get it you now have your foot in the door and you have just increased your odds GREATLY of being able to promote within. That's exactly what I did 5.5 years ago, I took a position as a medical collector and since then I have not only gotten to where I wanted but surpassed that into an even more higher position We are putting on a "Getting your foot in the door in the medical field' workshop in Jan. of 2010 I would be more then happy to provide you with acopy of that slide.


Michael A. Reynolds, CPC, CCP-P, OS
Project Manager
Corporate Compliance
Sharp HealthCare
San Diego, California
858-499-5757 Desk
858-499-3020 Fax
michael.reynolds@sharp.com


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## sweetk0928

I'm in the same bolt as you. There has to be a way things can change. I live in the Chicago area and Im having the hardest time getting my foot in any companys door. I dont have no experience in the coding area, but along with my CPC, I do have a bachelors degree in accounting. If any one know any place hiring in the Chicago area please forward it on to me. I would really appreciate it. My email is kristine_tyler@att.net


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## KellyCPCCPCO

Try this place.. I know they have been placing people in coding positions in the Chicago land area.  

http://www.clearmedicalnetwork.com/


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## LeeShimano

*So California and Project Xtern*

I read this entire thread and felt compelled to answer. I work for a large IPA/Medical management company in the low desert and we are a Project Xtern site. Some of you may have called or emailed me. I post using my real name and don't hide behind a cutsey avatar. I realize that some of you use your real names as well, which I really appreaciate as an employer. I will address what I mean by that in a second. 

Part of the problem with using externs is the state law in California. It does not allow a company to have extern do the same functions as an employee without being paid at least minimum wage. In the past, externs were a "win/win" for a company-the company gets caught up on some coding for free and the extern gets some much needed experience. Now I have to have budgetary allowance to have an Extern come and help us stay on schedule, which can be impossible when you have to convince a bean-counter to spend the money.

I also speak at our local technical college and probably will not be asked back. Why? Because I don't believe in telling someone that the certificate of completion that the college gives for a "billing and coding" course will get them a high paying job. Because the reality is that it won't. Yes, you may have paid 30K for that piece of paper, spent 2 years of your life in class and received good grades, however, the material they are teaching is just not enough of "real life" to be able to perform the job duties that are required.

Most of us "old timers" began from the ground up-I have been the chart room filing clerk, appointment scheduler, receptionist, check-out clerk, etc as well as the biller, billing coordinator, project manager, department supervisor and department manager. You have to be willing to take any job in an office and eventually, you will be there to get the coder job when one becomes available. 

Now, back to my soapbox and what I meant by "cutsey avatars" or user names. As a hiring manager, anyone that I consider for one of my positions is already in the interview process when I look over their resume, speak to them on the phone or respond to an email. My advice is save your creative usenames for Facebook or Twitter and get one that means business and that you are to be taken seriously.

I am always happy to help anyone with any questions they may have. Please feel free to PM me.


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## tjlock

I had the same problem. It took me 11 months to find a position. No one would even interview me because I didn't have any experience. My advise is stay where you are until you get a few years experience, then you can go wherever you want.


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## nmbenite

*Medical and Billing Certificate*

I graduated from Salter College in Westboylston, MA last year 2008 and I did my Externship with Fallon Clinic in Worcester in coding. I went to take the test two weeks ago but I fail  because I'm not working in the field. I'm working in Banking. I graduated from Data Entry and Bank Teller. I went back to school to take another career because my husband became legally blind. I have been applied in any position as a Medical Record, Service Representative etc. Could you help me find a job in the medical field.


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## karana

*dISCOURAGED*

I have recently been certified as a CPC-H. I thought i was alone with this lack of experience thing, i almost feel even more discouraged knowing that im not. I have dedicated the past 2 years of my life to getting educated in this field of billing and coding and all i need is a chance to prove my dedication. If i knew 2 years ago what i know now, i dont believe i would have wasted so much time and money to get nothing in return. SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE DONE!!!!!! THERE ARE QUALIFIED PEOPLE THAT WANT JOBS!!!!!!


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## pamstrawderman

I am going through the exact same things you are going through.  Our stories are identical, and like you I am so discouraged.  I am thankful that I have a job but I hate it and I spent a lot of time money and effort to get my certification and I feel it was all a huge waste of my time.


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## KKayWilson

*Thank you all fellow coders!*

My Dear Fellow Coders,

We have all had hard times. Yes, we all went into this with open hearts and open minds(and credit cards), to be discouraged. 

I just want to thank you all for sharing your stories.  I feel your pain.  

I am thankful for you seasoned coders who give advice.  Thank you for taking the time from your busy schedules to help.  

God Bless all of you!
Kathleen Kay Wilson


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## ksue

*CPC-A - 3yrs and still no coder job found in CA*

I wish someone had told me this before I spent all the time & money to become certified, the AAPC is happy for you to pay the money to join their organization but needs to be more honest about how hard it is for entry level coders to find jobs. I have 19 years experience in the healthcare field and I can't even get an interview for a coder position. If I could get at least an interview yes I could relay how much healthcare experience I have but I can't even get an interview...yes all the CPC-A's need to demand more help in obtaining internship/training I think we deserve this as member's. Also I never get a reply from anyone listed on the Xtern site.


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## lakeesha

I have been having the same problem. I finished my the coding program in May 2009 and I still have not found a job. I have received many calls but they all want more experience. My thing is how can we ever get any experience if no one is willing to give us a try. I have gotten so discourage about the situation that I feel like I wasted my time on this medical coding when I could have went to school for MA at least they have many job that are much easier to fill. I am really trying not to give up.If anyone have any info pleas contact me at LCHICKMAN@YAHOO.COM


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## Sonjagirl

Many are discouraged about this situation, thinking that there was a demand in coders, a safety net for us that offered job security.  It's totally the opposite--at least for us who put in 2-1/2 years of school.  Fortunately, I didn't go to a private school.  

Last October at our chapter meeting, we were told that we need to take a four unit anatomy class and a four unit physiology class from a community college; which I don't mind at all, but I as well as others need a job.  

Some of the teachers from these private schools have spoken up loudly complaining that their students have spent $10,000 to $13,000 and now they can't find a job.  It looks like we're all in the same boat.  That's unfortunate.  Looks like I have to starting thinking about Plan B; and that is finding another career.  This is sad.


----------



## judith dickerson

*Judy from Chespeake, VA*

I also have been trying to get into coding.  I got my CPC-A last year and have been working in medical transcribing which is a dying job.  I am now at home taking care of a grandchild and would like to get something in coding at home.  I have another friend who is in my same boat.  At our office they will not hire us because we don't have any coding experience and they said they don't have anyone to mentor us.  J


----------



## judith dickerson

*judy*

Hi, it's me again.  When we took the coding class which was very expensive, we were told that we would be hired if we passed the coding test.  I feel like we were mislead and all they wanted was the money that we could pay.  Then on top of that my instructor told us that if we passed the test we would be reimbursed.  Only the people who were already coding were reimbursed. I feel we were treated badly at our office.


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## rouge62950

*medical coder*

Hello Everyone,

Does anyone know of internships for a new CPC in the Atlanta area? Thanks

June McGill Prelowski
770-330-5965


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## L.Broadaway

Hello. I can feel your pain too. I completed an 18 month ASMBC in September. We also found out that our program included plenty of coding but hardly any billing studies. Now realizing that the students graduating this year are not prepared to even take the exam we've been encouraged to complete yet 2 more classes 11 wks. total to "review" this material. I have not even tried to get any type of coding position since I'm not yet certified, but I joined AAPC, enrolled in the additional classes etc. but I really have to work! Somewhere, anywhere! Can't even seem to land a receptionist job in a medical office. Tried to apply for my old retail jobs but my newly completed education is putting the brakes on that too! This is a catch 22 situation for us and I'm not sure whether to change my course or pretend I never got this degree.
Louise in Alabama


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## mcandia

*No jobs*

The certified medical coding field is becoming over saturated and as a result it is becoming more and more difficult to secure coding positions not only for the inexperienced but also for the experienced.

Years ago the same thing happened in nursing and it wasn't until there became a nursing shortage that jobs became more prevelant and the salary structure increased.

Maria CPC, CPC-H, CEMC


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## jimbo1231

*Scrbes*

This is a long string so it may have been mentioned. But one growth area in this field is Scribing. The reason is the move to EMRS. right now most of the jobs are in EDs. They tend to be entry level jobs. So for a mature coder it might be a pay cut. But for a recently trained or certified coder, Scribing could be a good opportunity.The work is at the ED, so no working at home. But if I were starting out I'd look at Scribing since you work closely with the doc while the doc is treating the patient. That is experience beyond anything you will learn in coding school.

Jim Strafford  CEDC  MCS-P


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## annbusiek

I have been trying to "break in" for over 2 years, though more intensely for the last 5 months since passing the CPC exam.  I have had all of 2 interviews with no offers.  Positions are being posted in my area, but they are all requiring 2 to 3 years experience.  I have been trying the Xternship route, but no one has the time to take on an intern, when they bother to respond to inquiries.  I have been applying for jobs as receptionists and other entry level positions within the various clinics/hospitals in my area to just get my foot in the door, but no luck yet, and no way to find out why I'm not being considered a candidate.

There is a shortage of qualified people with experience, how can they meet the need without going into the growing pool of CPC-A's?  Some of these postings have been up for months.  

I feel the pain of the others in this situation with me.  The current economy isn't helping.

Ann CPC-A


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## Abril

*Scare*

Hi I just graduate last year from medical coding and billing. When I was in my Xtern they offer me a job as a receptionist but I turn down the offer because they want to pay me the minimum 7.25 and I have had get pay more working at the local mall. Now I feel sorry I didn´t stay. I pass my CPC test last week. Since after I did my Xtern I have been looking for a receptionist position but without luck no call not even for interview. I am getting frustrated more that I have been reading all the comments before I feel like I spend soo much money in school for nothing. I need a job so I can have experience!!!!! I live in El Paso Texas


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## DLGSMITH

Yeah, that was wrong of you not to take the position that was offered to you after the Xtern. Sometimes its not what you know but who you know. If they did not feel positive about you working in that office then they would have never offered it to you. Sometimes you have to crawl before you walk and with alot of us not having the experience in coding or the medical field for that matter we should take what is offered to us just to get our foot in the door and prove ourselves so eventually new positions may become available.


----------



## jacklucas

*Jacklucas*

Although im still in school, im beginning to wonder if this was a good field to get into. From what i have read here, people are having a hard time finging employment in this field?


----------



## GSCoder07

I live in Louisiana and can only speak for myself.  While I was in college getting my coding diploma, I went to four different coding sites to observe.  When I was at my third coding site, on my second day, I was hired there.  I left there and was immediately hired at a large hospital here.  I left there and have been at a large clinic since January 2008.  Please don't give up. I wish you much luck!!


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## aguelfi

My sister-in -law is thinking about this as a career and I feel bad about this but I discourged her from doing it because of all the unemployed coders without experience.  She has planned to go to school and get certified but  i suggested trying to find a company that you could get thes experience with, hopefully have them pay for the certification and then move on from there.


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## CJBAKERCLINE

ttsaunders1 said:


> I have been searching for a coding job for over 5 years.  I have an associate's degree in MOT and I am now a CPC.  I am still searching for a job.  I have done externship with an AAPC accredited company.  Still there are no jobs available in my state for those with no experience.  What can we do as a community to change this.  I spoke with the president in my local chapter.  She speaks as if we can not change the way things are.  I believe that we can if we all pull together and work hard for what we believe in.  I want to know is there anyone else out there that is having this same issue.  I know of several other people in my area.  Someone please help me to change this.  I am not going to give up.  Though at times I do get a little discouraged about this.  I am 30 year old single mother of three and in dyer need of a job with a lasting career in the medical coding field.  I have many other talents but they are not a challenge to me only this medical field is my biggest challenge.  So if you hear me, feel me and understand me help me please! We are counting on helping hands and those of you who are having this same issue.  To push this through all states around the world to give people that do not have experience to give them the opportunity to gain experiene with varies companies besides just dong volunteer work which is a great thing.  But after you have taking that step where do you go from there.  I have been faxing my resume, posting my resume and building my resume.   I am not looking for a hand out just a breakthrough.  I will work hard for what I believe in and this is something that I will work hard for to change.  I just need people on y side and to help shjow me the way.  Thanks
> Tanisha Saunders Atlanta, Georgia native.   I can be contacted through email: ttsaunders1@bellsouth.net.  DESPERATELY SEEKING FOR ANSWER




Tanisha; 
 If you live in Georgia, look up a company called PerSe' Technologies, or McKesson Corp. They do hire new coders, and will help you with more training. I used to work for them, but I had to move to MO and now I am out of work...
Good luck-
CAROL


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## cbnewman231@gmail.com

*Student*

OMG!!!  I am in my last semister of my training getting ready to take the CPC exam in May.  I have been trying to get my feet wet, been asking questions, getting ready to start my 2nd internship, (20 hours) for school.  I am finding that there are just no jobs out there for CPC-A coders.  In the school catalogue under the courses they state where there are internships available, but now that I can actually go do one, the're reply is I have to go find one myself.  Which I have, twice!!  But it is all so misleading.  The school and the professor all just want your money.  My class is getting ready to take the exam, about 35 women.  I hear next semister is already full.  How on earth are we all going to get jobs!!!  They didn't tell me that this field was so hard to get in to!!  Now that the end is in site, I can't seem to get any employer to look at me seriously.  

I am going to go through the AAPC internship program, but don't think this will be enough!!  Really frustrated and let down. I had such high hopes at the begining, but found all this out through my own research. My moral is really down, and am going into the CPC exam like this!!!  Dam. Makes me mad.  I too have medical field experience, administrative experience.  I think no one wants to hire me in a lessor field, because when they see my resume they know that I am ultimately looking for a coding job and won't hire me either!

It seems like a catch 22!  All I can do is hang in there!


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## rhnddlns

*Rookie Rhonda*

If you don't mind me asking, what is remote coding?


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## pscott

It's working from home.


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## rejraji

I live in woodbridge Virginia, I got a certificate from NOVA for billing and coding. I will take CPC test on June. I tried to look for a job vainly. As you said everybody is asking for experience. I AM FRUSTRATED and I don t know what to do...

Sally


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## slowinskis5

*Jobs*

Check your local Temp Agency.  That is how I got my Job and have been there for 2 years.  Now I have experience and can look elsewhere for employment.

I hope that helps.


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## mgauvin

*same problem*

I live in Northern Maine and recently passed the CCA exam. But again no matter where I look there are no places for us inexperienced coders. I interned for 6 months as well but with the program I graduated from there is not even a course for 3M.


Michele Gauvin  CCA


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## semaxwell1

After reading all these posts, I never knew the outlook of trying to get employment for those without coding experience is negatively overwhelming and very discouraging, especially the many posts from people who have taken the CPC exam and passed it a year or so ago and still haven't found a coding job, either due to lack of experience or the CPC–”A” is holding them back.

I recently graduated from a local community college and took some coding classes, one in which prepared me for taking the CPC exam. A few years ago, I was interested in medical transcription, but eventually my interest changed towards medical coding, partly due to the changes that MT has gone through.

It appears the work experience a majority of employers require is either direct medical coding or working in a medical office environment in some capacity.

I am currently a bill reviewer of workers' comp medical claims. Though I don't do any actual coding, and I rely a lot on bill review software, I am very familiar with what needs to be filled out on the claim forms and if any documentation is needed in order for the insurance companies to reimburse the providers. I wonder if this would be considered any kind of experience to help me get my foot in the door towards a coding job. I even asked the supervisor of the department at our company that performs coding logic review with the primary focus on E&M codes, and the coders must be certified and experienced. She didn't specify what kind of experience, but I'm pretty sure she means coding experience.

I still plan on taking the CPC exam this summer, but I guess I'll be in the same boat as the other apprentice coders and just try to get my foot in the door to get that “A” off. However, it won't be easy.

I cannot afford to take an entry level clerical/admin position that will pay a lot less than what I am making now, and I don't have the time to take on a second job to make up for the loss in pay. I might be overqualified due to my past experience and knowledge to take a lower level position. And if an employer knows I don't plan on staying at a position for very long because I'll leave as soon as a position comes along that I believe will get me closer towards a coding career, they may not want to hire me.

I know I shouldn't have a negative attitude about all this, but it's hard not to feel a little caught in what seems to be a catch-22 situation.


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## jjhamer1

*Don't take "no" for an answer!!*

I am also a "newbie"...but, persistence is the key to success.
     I had applied online to the position I now hold...at the time, I was still in school, uncertified, but eager to learn as much as possible. When I applied, the ad read: Certified coder 3-5 years experience...I applied anyway...wanted to see if anyone was actually looking at these online resumes!! I recieved no response!!
     Three months later, I was performing my externship, and during that time, I went back online, only to find the same position was still open...only now they wanted a certified coder with 3 months experience. I was all over it. I had planned to take my certification test in mid-December. Anyway, I found out who was in charge of hiring for the position. I literally made a pest of myself, and finally got in front of the supervisor. I assured her she would not find a more dedicated individual who would put forth 110% of effort all the time. All I needed was a chance to show what I could do.
     Found out I passed the certification test on Christmas Day, and started my new job Dec. 28th.
     I have been here for three months now, and apparently doing well, as I have been given many more responsibilites besides just the clinic coder  (eleven clinics). I am auditing the docs, coding anesthesia for the hospital, and charge entry. I am always willing to meet the challenge when I am asked to do more...the more I learn, the better the job security. 
     And did I mention, I am a grandfather...age 53. If I can do it, anybody can!!
     Don't take "no" for an answer!!
                                               Good Luck!!


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## Eddie

*No Coding Jobs*

I have been volunteering my time and effort to two major hospital in the AZ. I graduated in July 2009 and was unable to find a job in the medical coding field or medical record area. I started to volunteer and have learned the medical records background as well as front office EMR. I am also learning the INS AND OUTS  of EMTALA. I am greatful for what I have learned. I have great family support that are telling me to hold on and something will brerak through. 

KEEP YOUR HEAD UP. SOMEONE WILL SEE YOUR GREAT DESIRE TO WORK IN THE FIELD.


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## twizzle

*Inexperienced/don't give up.*

I can identify with all of you  and particularly jjhamer1. I had no experience, just a CCA certification and 25 years in England as a dentist. When it came to finding a coding job I almost gave up; all wanted experience. I got a job alert about a position at a billing company who I really, really wanted to work for but they wanted 2-3 years coding experience preferably in cardiology. I had none of that but applied, got the interview, got the job and love it.
I have been there for a year now, passed the CPC first time, am soon to take the anesthesia specialty certification. I too am a grandfather(55)....there you go. It can be done. Don't give up.


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## ErikAZ

My first coding job was about six years ago.  I had called a local college asking about some health billing classes and as I was about to hang up the phone I asked the lady "by the way how do you get your first job in this field?".  She said "it's kind of tough, but wait, someone put a card up on the board yesterday...".  She got a card and I ended up with a lead.  That lead turned into a $10.00 an hour job working for a small billing company.  I did coding part-time and learned billing the rest of the time.  It was a rough job, sometimes we weren't paid on time, but honestly I'd have worked for FREE for the experience.  From there I was called again by the same lady at the college about a year later.  She wondered if I was still working there and mentioned "I'm working for this agency and they need some coders".  I ended up coding hospital ER physician side charts for alot more money.  It was only a temp contract but it's experience and after that it's come one after another.  If I had to give some tips they'd be as follows.

1. Don't balk at a lower paying job to get your foot in the door.  A medical practice as a job reference is worth it's weight in gold as a reference.

2. Try volunteering in a hospital.  You can mention "I'm a coder and would like to volunteer in medical records".  Most hospitals I've worked at have allowed volunteers into those departments.  Again it's a foot in the door.

3. Network.  Go to your local meetings and introduce yourself.  Don't limit yourself to "I'm looking for a coding job".  ANY job in the healthcare field is a good start.  Again get a foot in the door.

4. Research.  Investigate the company you're applying with.  Research their financials, their officers (if they're big), their history, their community involvement.  Don't walk into an interview blind but know the specialty, the history, the doctors (that really impresses them).  You wouldn't want someone to fix your car who had never read about your model would you?  Of course not.

5. Personality.  It's tough these days because of the economy.  Alot of people are applying for jobs but remember many of them are not qualified at all.  I've seen applications come in from people who have no medical experience at all via careerbuilder.  Employers are flooded with these worthless resumes.  Make yourself stand out.  If you call to ask a question send a followup thank you note.  If you get an interview again send an email or a thank you note a couple of days later.  You want to make the interviewer remember you.  

6. Education.  I can't stress how important it is to stay on top of things.  We all know ICD-10 is coming up in a couple of years and it's going to be tough.  If you want to set yourself above other applicants attend a few seminars, indicate those on your resume, tell a prospective employer you're very excited about the changes and are learning all you can about ICD-10.  I can tell you most of the doctors I know are NOT looking forwrad to it and most doctors offices will NOT be prepared for it when it comes.  Education is alot more than letters behind your name it's a permanent part of the profession.  There are plenty of free resources you can review if money is an issue.  

Most important... be positive.  It's tough sometimes (I know) but it's essential.  You may need to take that non-coding job at first, you may need to take a job not in healthcare, but don't give up the goal.  With ICD-10 and healthcare reform and RAC audits and private insurer reviews the role of coders will grow and grow.  Gone are the days when a doctors wife can play office manager and his daughter handle the billing.  Even if the doctors don't realize it yet they soon will with the upcoming changes.  It's going to be a shock for them and educated certified coders are going to be their first line of defense.


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## andrewsmetak@gmail.com

*I've been reading some of this stuff and...*

Seem to realize that if you think negative, you definitely won't get a job. Like Henry Ford said "If you think can or you think you can't. Then your always right." So I would just stay away from threads like these because bad news of any kind just brings in loads of negativity and also just put yourself out there and keep trying until you get your job. If you fail, keep trying, but don't give up because that means you lose once you give up. Also represent yourself well and speak well. Read up on how to be successful on an interview because there are loads of info out there to do that especially the internet and library. So hope you all read this and learn something. Keep your head up because YOU WILL FIND A JOB and when you do you keep up the excellent work  in medical coding for more better opportunities. 

- Andrew (CPC-A Pending) *I'm positive I passes *


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## vj_tiwari

Hey Look in to the AAPC forum or jobs section or if u search in "INDEED.COM"

Then you get lots of job opportunities.  And also if still you're unemployed then please being in touch with new update on coding, keep in hands with the ICD/CPT coding guidlines. It helps you to get job & also boost your confidence.

Best of LUCK.

VJ.


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## CumaMason

SEMaxwell .. if you have worked in the medical field (billing for WC included!) for two years, you won't get that "A" after your CPC.  You just need to have your employer(s) sign a paper stating how long you have worked there.


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## lisahup

jjhamer1, thank you for your post.  I've been reading this thread and your response made me feel a little more optimistic.  I am halfway through my coursework now and I do believe that now is the time to get my face out there, make connections, etc.  I landed my first full time job the exact same way you obtained your coding job.  I literally made a pest of myself, he HAD to give me the job just to shut me up!!  I was there 16 years.  So, in short, your post made me optimistic after reading so many posts that were making me fearful.  I am not going to give in to fear, I am going to make my dream come true and I will find a job.  I am going to make it happen.  Thank you for your post!


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## mlinton

*Good news about ICD10.*

ICD-10: New Codes, New Opportunities
The adoption of ICD-10 is a gigantic leap into the unknown for medical coders and healthcare organizations on either side of the payment process. The comfortable, time-tested relationship with ICD-9 codes will be shelved for the new, vastly unfamiliar codes that comprise ICD-10. 

Not surprisingly, the mere thought of diagnosis codes jumping from the thousands to more than 100,000 in October 2011 is already causing administrators and coders alike to reach for the aspirin. Keeping up with the codes will be a tremendous task for coders and healthcare organizations that have spent more than 30 years using the ICD-9 system. 

But the conversion to ICD-10 – directed by the Department of Health and Human Services' Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services – is about more than replacing one set of codes with another. It represents an unprecedented opportunity to improve the quality of information, which will – over the long run – benefit every constituent of our healthcare system. 

ICD-10 gives the healthcare industry the chance to improve the way it handles documentation and coding operations through technological capabilities and human expertise and, at the same time, to elevate the power of biosurveillance and pharmacovigilance.

Considering, however, that even small changes to the current ICD-9 system can net 80 percent to 90 percent denial rates initially, the overwhelming scope of the disruption stemming from ICD-10 cannot be understated. 

Given the diversity in size, specialty, and payer mix within the healthcare industry, the complications of the change are nearly impossible to properly measure. But so, too, are the new codes' possibilities in terms of technology adoption, research, and discovery.

A Computer-Assisted Lifeline

The enormous increase in the number of codes available will likely cause many healthcare organizations to seek technological solutions to help deal with code selection. While the use of computer-assisted coding (CAC) is not new, the adoption of ICD-10 may cause adoption rates to increase considerably. 

In fact, a recent survey of medical practices shows that two-thirds expect to purchase software to manage the change. CAC will offer organizations a lifeline during a chaotic time – automated code selection from a sea of unknown new codes. At its core, sophisticated CAC helps organizations harness incredible amounts of information and streamline the coding process. 

Through natural language processing (NLP)-driven software, CAC applications “read” physicians' dictated reports and, to varying degrees, extract clinical language to assign appropriate and accurate codes for patient encounters. 

The technology already reduces the demands on human coders by removing their involvement in simple and repetitive coding tasks, letting the technology tackle those tasks instead. This frees human coders to focus on the more complicated and challenging aspects of coding.

CAC will do the same thing – and more – with ICD-10. Rather than leaving human coders to dig through ICD-10 coding manuals, the technology will mine medical reports, assign relevant codes, and present them to human coders to review and approve. Through this process, coders will be able to learn along the way and expand their familiarity with ICD-10. 

This alone will be a tremendous benefit for organizations that fear the effects that cost, training, and time investments in ICD-10 will have on their staff. Healthcare organizations should heed warnings of a Band-Aid® approach with CAC, as all systems are not created equally. 

Term-matching or pure rules-only systems employ an “if, then” approach: If such software detects the phrase “diabetes,” it will code for diabetes, but it may not catch contexts that could change the diagnosis (such as “negative for diabetes”), nor information elsewhere in the record that supports a more refined diagnosis (i.e., reference to malnutrition). 

More advanced systems use NLP to evaluate the entirety of a medical report, scanning for all possible diagnosis information. This is especially relevant for ICD-10, where the volume of codes will increase to about 155,000 from ICD-9's 17,000, in order to tackle diagnosis coding at a more granular level.   

Organizations should also be aware that some systems are configured to send reports directly to billing after simply matching codes to a list that a claim scrubber would approve, without more sophisticated validation of the codes given the evidence in the dictation. 

This lack of proper review introduces significant compliance risks, especially in light of an entirely new code set – trying to predict what a scrubber would approve with ICD-10 is an unknown gamble. 

CAC applications should verify accuracy based on national coding guidelines, coding results from a myriad of organizations, input from certified coders, and statistical analysis, in addition to advanced coding and statistical technologies. 

The technology should also be able to offer continual reporting and aggregate analysis of the changes that review coders make to its output, to highlight possible areas for technology refinement and coder education – a vital element as human coders begin to learn the new ICD-10 code sets. 

Operational and Medical Insight

Beyond the opportunity for broader adoption of coding technology, the additional promise of ICD-10 in the United States is coming into focus. The current ICD-9 system was developed more than 30 years ago and simply cannot support today's healthcare, much less that of the future. 

The codes are already stretched to cover current diagnoses, because today's practice of medicine has grown to involve concepts unthinkable in the 1970s. Medicine, technology, and diagnoses have advanced incredibly in the last three decades, while coding remains mired in outdated systems, and essential healthcare information too often remains locked away in unanalyzed clinical dictations.

With ICD-10's new organization of codes, medical coding can catch up to today's healthcare because ICD-10's granularity offers the industry a real chance to revolutionize the way it gathers and processes information. Driven by vast amounts of data, rules, and analysis, ICD-10 dives deeper into the building blocks of diagnosis than ever before. 

At the same time, NLP technology excels at extracting such structure from unrestricted medical language. By pairing deeper standards of description with NLP technology's ability to automatically map language to structured information, healthcare organizations can discover patterns, identify outliers, and create flexible and powerful new windows into their operations.

NLP's capacity to map from language to structure has already proven its value in other domains. Automatic information extraction serves as the foundation for surveillance, interactive search, and knowledge discovery applications in business intelligence, homeland security, and biomedical research. What healthcare could do with the same kinds of insight is boundless.  

ICD-10 gives the data to support – among other things – biosurveillance, pay-for-performance initiatives, safety improvements, quality measurements, and more accurate reimbursement rates. In short, the new code set offers a better way to organize data, and ultimately provides higher-quality information to gauge the safety, efficiency, and quality of care. 

By embracing ICD-10, the American healthcare industry will adopt a richer, more systematic, and more extensible approach to clinical documentation. Doing so will reveal unprecedented opportunities to link documentation and diagnoses to new knowledge and deeper medical understanding. 

— Andy Kapit, MBA, is CEO of CodeRyte Inc. (www.coderyte.com), based in Bethesda, Md. Questions and comments can be directed to editorial@rt-image.com.


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## RyanW

I'm so glad this thread got started.  I wish it had been here before I spent (sometimes I feel like wasted) three months of my life to become a CPC.  Those thinking of getting into coding should first be required to read this entire thread.  

I gave up looking after the rude awakening I got when I started looking for a coding job.  It makes a lot of sense when you think about it, imagine the profits that are being made off of inexperienced and unemployed CPC coders.

That's my little rant and it is common among all entry level job fields but coding is especially difficult to crack into and it's a shame that's not more commonly discussed. 


My situation is that, I was fortunate enough to get hired as an anesthesia tech and have been working for Health One for a year now and have developed an excellent reputation for myself.  My certification expires on March 30, 2011 and I have NO CEU's, I have not decided if I want to spend any more money on the coding world yet. I've not even re-newed my membership fees to the AAPC.  

If I were to get my rear in gear and get my CEU's here:
http://www.healthcarebusinessoffice.com/catalog-pg1.htm

and push forward with getting a coding job, how would my luck change considering my status with a large company and good reviews as an employee?


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## cxaiken@comcast.net

I am currently enrolled in medical coding course through local college, will be finishing in August and scheduled to sit for exam in September, but all these statements on not having experience really bothers me. How can you get experience if they do not allow you a starting point. Was a little discouraged at last class, instructor stated also that area hospitals would probably not hire inexperienced coders. So how do we all overcome these obstacles. I am 54 years old, lost my job 2 years ago and have not been able to find anything do to the economic decline. I have bookkeeping and office management experience which I believe would be an asset to the extended experience of a coding position. Not sure what to do proactively to get the skills I need to become successful in this profession.

Cheryl Aiken
Lebanon, NH


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## RyanW

At least your instructor is honest...mine lied through her teeth

I was also unemployed while studying, that's why I was able to pass on my first try.  The only advice I can give is to get employed in health care or insurance and be positive and persistent.  My spirits are easily broken and that's why I still don't have a coding job.


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## KellyLR

*Breaking In*

I wanted to respond to Cheryl Aiken's post about switching careers.  It seems like that was what you did.  I had done the same thing. Briefly put, I started my transition more than 5 years ago because I was tired of the Engineering field but trapped because I made excellent money.  I knew by switching careers, I would have to downsize economically and other ways to make a change possible.  It was HARD.  Once I realized I wanted to code or perform coding related duties, I spent some $$ with an oline school and took Medical Billing and Coding Courses. All the courses were outstanding except the Coding. The book sucked, the curriculum sucked and god bless her, the online instructor tried her best.   But I was green as a golf course when it came to coding, but I knew this was my thing from the first time I opened a book on it and saw the numbers.  I winded up purchasing the Study Guide and online practice tests from AAPC and passed the CPC exam on my own.  If I would have only relied on the crappy course I took (I didn't know any better) I would have walked away long ago. Well, now I am a coder and one way I survived the transition was by develping a strategic plan. It was simple. I transitioned myself by burning the candle at both ends working my main job while I went thru school and educated myself.  I first got credentialed as a CMBS and found odd and part time work billing.  I hated that stuff, but I did it. The pay well, I almost threw in the towel but I just thought of where I will be once i got through the hard part of transitioning. This took over 4 yrs. Now I am in coding, doing remote, and have another job lined up for straight 40 hrs in auditing.  I knew I wanted to code or work with codes because my enthusiasm for it was on fire and still is. These two jobs will pay me enough and almost put me back where I was financially.  The road is tough!  What i found out thru this is keep yourself practicing to code, make a job out of finding a job, accept each interview as an experience to landing the right job for you when it comes.  I went on many an interview, and honestly, some I was really interested in and flubbed the interview or process or there were some that clearly were not a fit for me and my style. My next goal is degree in HIM field.

There is a job for every person out there who wants it.  Don't be discouraged andfeel like, "a test everywhere ya go?" It's true.  Everyone including doctors, nurses technicians most likely HAVE to take a test and background check to get employed. Not just coders. Study up on the trends of hiring as well. They have changed many times in the last ten years and one needs to keep up wih the younger ones because they are the future.

I sincerely hope and pray you find was to build yourself and get the job you want and need.  May God Bless and you keep moving forward.


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## HEDSE

*No jobs for inexperienced coders*

Hi
Just adding my bit, indeed it;s an uphill task, no one wants to give us newbies a chance,how can we get experience, if persons in the field are unwilling to give us a chance. I graduated from college just over a year ago, and passed the CPC in September 2009, I know its not as long as some persons, and they are still out there looking for a hire, but, we have to keep the faith and keep on keeping on

WE, THE INEXPERIENCED CODERS,,,,,,,NEED A CHANCE AT GAINING SOME EXPERIENCE
HELP US!

(We may need to set up a Chapter of Inexperienced Coders, and have a Conference some time soon!)


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## DMRgn2010

marty3073 said:


> Hi
> I AM IN THE SAME SITUATION, I HAVE BEEN TRYIN TO FIND A JOB IN MEDICAL CODING AS WELL AND THE AREA WHERE I LIVE IT IS EVEN HARDER, BUT I HAVE HAD SOME OPPORTUNITIES, BUT OUT OF FEAR I GAVE UP, BUT I HAVE LEARNED FROM THAT. I ADMIRE YOUR ENDURANCE, AND BELIEVE ME IT IS GOING TO BE WORTH IT. I SEE THAT YOU HAVE SENT YOUR RESUME OUT, BUT HAVE YOU TRIED LOOKING UP YELLOWBOOK. COM AND FIND ALL OF THE CLINICS IN YOUR AREA AND MAIL OUT YOUR RESUME, I BELIEVE SOMETHING WILL TURN UP. SO KEEP HANGING IN THERE.
> 
> P.S. DON'T KNOW IF YOU ARE RELIGIOUS, BUT READ ROMANS 8:31
> 
> FEEL FREE TO EMAIL ME: marty3073@hotmail.com


 
I also like this verse: Romans 8:28! I haven't been certified yet.. but hope that by the time I do become certified that there will be a job waiting for me. But not just me, especially those of you who have been certified and have had a hard time getting a coding job. I kind of wish there was a "Coder's Assistant" type job that I could work.. That would help me get more experience while I am studying and reviewing for my cpc exam (Sept). That would help me practice and possibly help me pass my exam... but all I can do is "practice" my coding skills. I've been trying to get a job at a medical billing office for a general medical office assistant (clerical) hoping to work closely with a coder. But, in the meantime, I'll still study, review, and practice my coding skills.


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## DMRgn2010

jjhamer1 said:


> I am also a "newbie"...but, persistence is the key to success.
> I had applied online to the position I now hold...at the time, I was still in school, uncertified, but eager to learn as much as possible. When I applied, the ad read: Certified coder 3-5 years experience...I applied anyway...wanted to see if anyone was actually looking at these online resumes!! I recieved no response!!
> Three months later, I was performing my externship, and during that time, I went back online, only to find the same position was still open...only now they wanted a certified coder with 3 months experience. I was all over it. I had planned to take my certification test in mid-December. Anyway, I found out who was in charge of hiring for the position. I literally made a pest of myself, and finally got in front of the supervisor. I assured her she would not find a more dedicated individual who would put forth 110% of effort all the time. All I needed was a chance to show what I could do.
> Found out I passed the certification test on Christmas Day, and started my new job Dec. 28th.
> I have been here for three months now, and apparently doing well, as I have been given many more responsibilites besides just the clinic coder (eleven clinics). I am auditing the docs, coding anesthesia for the hospital, and charge entry. I am always willing to meet the challenge when I am asked to do more...the more I learn, the better the job security.
> And did I mention, I am a grandfather...age 53. If I can do it, anybody can!!
> Don't take "no" for an answer!!
> Good Luck!!


 
Thanks for that uplifting, hopeful message... I have a question, though, you were able to get an externship opportunity before you were certified? I wish there were more of those. I live in the Tyler, TX area (surrounding area) and am hoping for an opportunity to help me "practice" my coding skills to strengthen my knowledge which I believe would help me pass my coding exam in addition to my studying and reviewing for my certification exam. I have a question, though, did you pass your coding exam the first time?


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## Pattis47@gmail.com

I agree with you that AAPC misrepresents the job market in their advertising.  They take our money for the dues, classes, testing, seminars and don't give CPC-A's one thing in return but a kick in the butt.  As an organization that is to promote the Certification of Professional Coders I think they have failed us (CPC-A) miserably.  Then they have the nerve to tell me to go out in my community to find companies that will take coders to do externships for their program.  I am in the process of finding out how and to whom to file my complaint.  If I can take legal action for false representation, I am going to do that.  All together, I have spent more than 12,000.00 for an education, books, seminars, memberships, dues, etc.  and not a JOB to be found that doesnt say " AT LEAST 2 YEARS EXPERIENCE REQUIRED ".


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## Pattis47@gmail.com

You were lucky that AAPC knew where your state was for an externship.  Until 2 weeks ago, they didnt know Delaware was a state, let alone have externships available in that area.  They told me to go out and find someone that would do externships because they didnt have time.  I did that.  They registered with AAPC but I still have not heard anything about the externship.  Then I found out the company advertises for coder/billers and then tries to sell them education so they can get hired!  I am ready to go to McDonalds and flip burgers.  This is just a racket as far as I am concerned


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## Butler

I am finding that the temp agencies are also asking for 3 years from their clients.


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## Pam Brooks

As someone who has been in this business for 20+ years, and who is in the position to hire entry level coders, I really want to respond to this thread.

First, I agree that it's frustrating to have spent time, money and effort, only to learn that the healthcare field is not waiting for you with open arms. But I want to ask each and every one of you who are not currently able to find work to look at this situation from my perspective, and then ask yourselves who is really responsible for all of this?   Let me be as blunt and as polite as I possibly can.  If I offend you, I apologize in advance.

One post I read lamented that they had spent "3 whole months" learning this work, and felt ripped off because nobody would hire them.   If anyone thinks that they can learn coding in three months, and expect any physician, facility, or billing agency to hire you with that "expansive" length of education, then you were sadly misinformed, or did not take the time to do the research, which is, by the way, a necessary skill required of all coders.  The biggest trend I am seeing in this thread is that many of you didn't do your research. Before plunking down your money for your coding classes, did you call any hosptials, physicians or billing companies to see what they required for education and experience?  Or did you rely on the advertisements and promises of the coding schools alone to convince you that this is a wide-open field?  Had you called me (a coding supervisor for a hospital-owned multispecialty practice with 90+ physicians) I would have told you that I do not hire new graduates for staff coding positions, and that the EMR has eliminated the need for entry level coding assistants. 

I did recently have one entry-level position open up.  I threw out several resumes for spelling and grammar errors. (hello....attention to detail??!!)  Some applicants had schedule requirements that I couldn't meet, like they couldn't work on Tuesdays because they had to babysit the grandkid. One showed up in clothing that voilated our dress code.  In the end, only four certified coders were in the running.   I was shocked that only one could tell me the difference between CPT and ICD-9. You can see how this might be discouraging to an employer, because it tells me that not everyone is getting the best training, and not everyone wants to do all that they can to secure employment. 

According to the Coding Edge between April and July of this year, there were nearly 2100 new CPC-A's credentialled.  I do not blame the AAPC, as many of you have.  The AAPC is a for-profit company, dedicated to promoting and educating excellent coders, and they do a fantastic job.  But why shouldn't they take take your money if you offer it up? They are not responsible for the job market, your resume content, your interveiw behavior, your lack of education or experience, your geographic region, or that you took a chance on this career and can't get a job.  That is your responsibility. Threatening litigation on this website is career suicide; there isn't a coding manager on earth that would hire you now.  

Here's what I look for:  Is your resume spotless?  Are you?  Look in the mirror, appearance does count, sorry.  You'll be speaking with physicians and will wear a badge that identifies you as an employee, and we want you to be neatly and professionally presented. Skip the cigarette before the interview, I can smell it.   Explain to me what it is about you that makes you someone that I want to hire.  I can teach you to code, but I can't teach you to be motivated, organized, personable or smart.  Figure out what kind of coder I need (surgery, E&M, rad, lab) and then brush up on those areas, because I'm going to test you. Ask me questions, don't just sit there!  

I once had an interview for a job that I really wanted, and did not get the job.  I couldn't understand why...I thought the interview went extremely well. Later, I asked for feedback as to why I wasn't selected,  and it was the most valuable career advice I have ever received.  I made mistakes (unknowingly at the time) that were pointed out to me, and although it was difficult to hear, I never made those mistakes again.  So if you don't get the job, find out why, because even though you don't want to hear this....it might be about you, and it might be something you can do differently next time with more favorable results.  

I apologize for the length of this post, but I hope that I was able to give a different perspective.  The best advice I can give is to stay focused, accept any position within the healthcare field, avoid the bad attitudes, and keep trying.


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## 634sg4fs65g4fg

I think Gail you should attempt the auditing positions that require the nursing degree with coding degree. I think you are very fortunate to have both. Use that to your advantage! Good luck! Gail Davis, CPC


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## anapravnik

*Thank you Pam!*

Miss Pam,
If I may, I'd like to thank you for your perspective and input on this matter.
It's very discouraging to read this post and participate in the pity-party. I myself am a student and took my exam yesterday; I hope to hear good news about the results later this week. As much as I can empathize with some of the sentiments expressed earlier by inexperienced members, the attitude and the sense of entitlement on the part of some is shocking. 

I hope this won't sound harsh.

It makes you wonder what kind of time and effort they devoted to researching the field before they decided to attempt certification. Potential employers can sense negativity; it's like a poison that would creep into the entire organization. It's not hard to see why some are experiencing difficulty gaining employment. I read over the resume postings on the forum just to see what kind of credentials and experience other members have. Many of those submitted by the CPC-A's have atrocious errors. It shows, as you mentioned, a lack of attention to detail at best and at worst, just plain laziness. Why on earth wouldn't you use spellcheck and have a family member or friend proofread your resume? 

Your experience and advice is sound and very much appreciated. It's great that you provided so many particulars about the job search and these will be remembered as I begin to see what opportunities await me.

Thank you again.


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## mmorningstarcpc

Pam,

EXCELLENT, EXCELLENT post!  Kudos to you for saying it best!

Machelle


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## mhcpc

*Amen! Pam*

Let me thank you too, Pam for your insight.  I have been with the AAPC since I passed the exam in 2004.  They have been nothing but helpful to me.

As for breaking into the coding field, you may have to find another route to it.  I started working at an answering service in 1990 and used any scrap of knowledge that I could get from the doctors who used our service to land a job at the local hospital as a unit secretary.  At that point, I didn't even know coding existed.  After working in the hospital setting for several years, I accepted a position as a receptionist in an internal medicine office.  From there, I went to work for an ENT doing insurance and billing which led to my first coding opportunity.

That opportunity came because I had built credibility in the medical community, not because I took a few classes and passed an exam!  My physician paid for me to go to school and take that exam AFTER he trusted me.

I'm with you Pam, I wouldn't offer a job to anyone with the poor attitudes and the whining I am seeing in this thread.  Time would have been much better spent asking seasoned coders for advice!

Michele R. Hayes, CPC, CPMA, CEMC, CGIC


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## Pam Brooks

Perhaps the whining will stop, and the board can be used for the purpose it was originally intended...to offer guidance and support to professional coders.  

Thanks for the kudos.  I just felt that it had to be said.  I'm off my soapbox now.


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## aaperry

I am taking my exam on 7/17.  I was resently hired in a dental office working with insurance.  It's not medical coding, but works along the same line.  Even though it is difficult to "break in" to medical coding, I agree that a person needs to take any opportunity that is offered and to establish knowledge and credibility within the medical community.  I have been in the medical field since 1996 and have built a name for myself.  Each job that I have held has helped me build my career to where I am today.  The dentist that I will be working for is my regular dentist.  He knows me, my work ethic and knows some of the providers that I have worked with, which has helped my reputation.


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## dclark7

I would like to add a few words to Pam's post.  I have also been in this field for a very long time (30 years).  I recently started teaching the billing portion of a Coding and Billing class offered by a local Community college.  While I try not to discourage any of my students, I was very surprised to find that many of them thought they could take their Certificate of Completion (it's not a dregree program) and get coding jobs.  Many did not even want to sit for the CPC exam.

I agree with Pam completely, many of the new coders have not done their research.  Many of my students are taking this class because they've seen ads that say coders will earn $35-40,000/year.  They also hear that you can do coding from home.  With the large amount of coding courses available, the market has been inundated with new, inexperienced coders.  The problem with this is that with all the government regulations and policy changes doctors and hospitals don't have time to train new people, they need someone who has at least a basic understanding of how the system works; and three months in a training course is not going to give you this.

One of the other things Pam mentioned was the amount of errors in resumes and people coming to interviews in inappropriate clothing.  I have a very large physician network and this is a common complaint when they are looking to hire.  People, LOOKS DO MATTER!  Hide the tattoos, remove the piercings and dress like a professional (no ripped jeans or belly shirts).  Have someone proofread your resume and correct mistakes (grammatical and spelling) and remember this is not a text message to your BFF. If some of the posts I've read lately are any indication of coders education, we need to add an English course to the requirements.

Another issue I've heard from physicians and Medical Records Directors, new coders do not know how to abstract information from a chart or note.  Nearly anyone can pass a multiple choice test, but real medical records are not multiple choice.  As Pam said, do your research.  

I've been doing this long to enough to know that times will continue to change.  Years ago doctors could hire anyone off the street and train them.  They no longer have that option,  They need people who are sticklers for detail, aware of current laws and regulations, able to keep up with changes in the law and able to keep them informed.  Three months in a coding class is not going to give them what they need.

Doreen, CPC


----------



## DMRgn2010

dclark7 said:


> I would like to add a few words to Pam's post. I have also been in this field for a very long time (30 years). I recently started teaching the billing portion of a Coding and Billing class offered by a local Community college. While I try not to discourage any of my students, I was very surprised to find that many of them thought they could take their Certificate of Completion (it's not a dregree program) and get coding jobs. Many did not even want to sit for the CPC exam.
> 
> I agree with Pam completely, many of the new coders have not done their research. Many of my students are taking this class because they've seen ads that say coders will earn $35-40,000/year. They also hear that you can do coding from home. With the large amount of coding courses available, the market has been inundated with new, inexperienced coders. The problem with this is that with all the government regulations and policy changes doctors and hospitals don't have time to train new people, they need someone who has at least a basic understanding of how the system works; and three months in a training course is not going to give you this.
> 
> One of the other things Pam mentioned was the amount of errors in resumes and people coming to interviews in inappropriate clothing. I have a very large physician network and this is a common complaint when they are looking to hire. People, LOOKS DO MATTER! Hide the tattoos, remove the piercings and dress like a professional (no ripped jeans or belly shirts). Have someone proofread your resume and correct mistakes (grammatical and spelling) and remember this is not a text message to your BFF. If some of the posts I've read lately are any indication of coders education, we need to add an English course to the requirements.
> 
> Another issue I've heard from physicians and Medical Records Directors, new coders do not know how to abstract information from a chart or note. Nearly anyone can pass a multiple choice test, but real medical records are not multiple choice. As Pam said, do your research.
> 
> I've been doing this long to enough to know that times will continue to change. Years ago doctors could hire anyone off the street and train them. They no longer have that option, They need people who are sticklers for detail, aware of current laws and regulations, able to keep up with changes in the law and able to keep them informed. Three months in a coding class is not going to give them what they need.
> 
> Doreen, CPC


 
That is so true, Doreen! Practice is the key! I am very detail-oriented and enjoy looking for and finding the correct codes. I also agree on the great importance of keeping up on laws and regulations and especially "Communication" skills as coders need to ask a physician, etc. for more information in order to code the diagnosis and procedures correctly so that the claim will not be rejected.


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## 4848@frontiernet.net

*4848@frontiernet.net*

Hi don't feel that you are alone. Like many others I have applied for everything from receptionist to coder. It is very dishearting to realize that you have spent your time and money to learn this challenging career only to find that the doors you though might open are closed to you due to lack of experience. I have tried the externship, volunteering but to no avail. I even applied for housekeeping. Nothing. Sort of make you wonder why. I have taken a part time position as a ROI which has messed up my unemployment. So I can no long volunteer funds shortage. I wish you the best of luck in your search. If you find a way of opening the doors let us know and I will do the same.


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## marcia Brown

*job hunting*

I am having trouble the economy down turn didn't help any. I don't have the actual Dr office experience. I do have 13 yrs with Aetna medicare part B but I left that job in 85. my frustration is that coding experience lacked customer contact, And all my recent experience is totally phone and customer contact. But that is a retail setting and doesn't seem to translate. I have been certified now with -A- for 2 yrs. I am in a small town in oregon and there are no extern opportunities unless I move to a larger city 3hrs away.. I find it really scary to see all the newly certified names each month. I know many are already working. But the apprentice column is large as well. I wish every one much luck and success.  AND IF ANY ONE know if my medicare experience is valid now let me know


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## semaxwell1

*Getting Apprentice removal online*

This just came out last week. This sounds very promising and wonderful. As soon as I get certified, I am definitely going to try this out. 

http://ht.ly/2CmAe

Virtual Experience: Apprentice Removal

As an alternative to on-the-job experience, a CPC-A may earn the removal of the apprentice designation by accurately coding 800 operative notes virtually. The operative notes are real, redacted notes representing 17 specialties and are available to code online. We believe this experience will closely simulate coding in a multi-specialty practice. This will serve two purposes for the CPC-A. First, it will enable the removal of the apprentice designation without having to get a job, which is often difficult to obtain without experience. Second, it gives the coder a proficiency score to show to potential employers to provide evidence of coding skills.


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## guinnevere

semaxwell1 said:


> This just came out last week. This sounds very promising and wonderful. As soon as I get certified, I am definitely going to try this out.
> 
> http://ht.ly/2CmAe
> 
> Virtual Experience: Apprentice Removal
> 
> As an alternative to on-the-job experience, a CPC-A may earn the removal of the apprentice designation by accurately coding 800 operative notes virtually. The operative notes are real, redacted notes representing 17 specialties and are available to code online. We believe this experience will closely simulate coding in a multi-specialty practice. This will serve two purposes for the CPC-A. First, it will enable the removal of the apprentice designation without having to get a job, which is often difficult to obtain without experience. Second, it gives the coder a proficiency score to show to potential employers to provide evidence of coding skills.



This is really great news!

I'd also like to reiterate how important getting your foot in the door can be- a good resume and importantly, a COVER LETTER, can go miles. And of course, dress for success, practice interview questions and have common questions ready to answer beforehand. Practice proper grammar and sentence structure with a friend- impressing is the key in a an interview. If you have a colloquial style of speaking, now's the time to try to assimilate yourself.

If you don't have a lot of experience, try using a student or skill-based resume format, which highlights your skills and education rather than previous employers. These are particularly helpful if you're making a career change.

Don't forget- formatting and format are essential. If you're unsure, and it's an online or email submission, send your resume and cover letter in a universal format! It's of no use if the hiring manager can't open or read it.

If anyone would like someone to look over their resume, let me know.

If you're having trouble finding employment in a physician's office, try your local hospital websites, of course you're posting your resume on different employment sites (don't forget craigslist), and if all else fails, try a mass mailing of your resume.

And do try for other medical positions, such as medical records, HIM, front desk, etc. If you do get in, try to be 500 times more professional than you think you can be- never be late, be full of knowledge and helpful with tasks, and always cheerful. Once they know your skills, you may very well be up for a promotion soon! 

Good luck!


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## rheitkamp

Ladies -you are absolutely correct!  I am one of those CPC-A's.  I bought the salary info, the demand information and everything I read on AAPC.  I did not do my own research and that is my mistake.  The only outside questions I asked were of my PCP and his nurse while I was at a Dr. visit and they were very positive about my plans - however - I know now that I should have spoken to their office mgr. regarding the "real" needs of the office.  Three months of training and a multiple choice test (although I am proud to have passed the 1st time) is not enough training.  We were exposed to some abstracting of notes, however, not enough to walk into an office and be ready to go.  

I am willing to take responsibility for my own mistakes, and I am trying to correct the problem, but I don't know how to go about it.  I don't have the typo or dress code issues that were described, and I know how the CPT, ICD-9, and HCPCS code sets are used.

Thank you both for your honesty.


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## kortiz

I too am a CPC-A without coding experience, so I've tried to get my foot in the door as a receptionist in an office. On my last interview I was told that I am over qualified for the position.  With secretarial experience in a legal office and a tax office I am over qualified to be a receptionist. How do I get out of this catch-22?


----------



## brookievb

*Foot in the door*

My best advice for you is to get your foot in the door somewhere. Prior to my current coding position, I worked in ED registration and precertification while attending school and it helped me greatly. Any type of medical administrative background will most certainly help you in your future coding endeavors. I know my supervisor gives 'fresh starts' a second look if they are certified and have some other type of medical admin background. GOOD LUCK!


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## AHVC

What I tell my students who are frustrated by this same situation...you have to get your name out there.  I suggest to all my students that you attend your local chapter meetings every month and start making contacts and networking.   Make up business cards that are short and sweet.  Include you name, your credentials, and what your degree is in or going to be in.  Include a phone number and an email address.

I have 1 student who actually took my advice and got out there and met with people at her local chapter meeting and she pursuaded them to take her on in an internship program while she was finishing her schooling.  She has no medical coding/billing or health care experience for that matter but when she graduates she will have along with her degree.

It is a tough job market and you need to think outside the box in securing placement in the medical and dental field.  That are a lot of other options besides working in a doctor's officer or a hospital as a medical coder or biller.  Look at your local Medicaid office or Medicare office for an entry level position, look at health insurance companies also in your area, talk to your dentist, your doctor, the school nurse.  The jails and prisons utilize health care, there are positions in utilization review and data entry for billing offices.  You can also look at home care agencies or a software company that specializes in electronic health records or practice management systems. Look for jobs in the referral department or pre-authorization areas, or benefits and eligibility departments.  The list of jobs for health information management professionals is endless and do not just stop with medical coder or medical biller.  

The harsh reality of the situation is that without actual hands on experience most people will be hesitant to hire you.  The billing and coding process is vital to the financial health of a health care organization and they are not going to feel comfortable turning over this huge responsibility without knowing you have a proven track record.  While your schooling is to be applauded and having your credentials is an awesome achievment also think about where they are coming from when the bottom line of the organization falls to the medical coding and billing operations to bring the revenue in.  They want to be sure that the money they are entitled to is being handled by coding and billing professionals that have a work history that shows there knowledge and expertise.   So while you are frustrated, you also need to understand why they are hesitant to perhaps hire someone without experience.

Get out there and network at your local chapter meetings and get to know people.  Networking is so very important as you embark on your new career or if you are changing roles in the medical billing and coding field.

I started out as a file clerk in a home care agency many years ago...I then got my coding credentials and my bachelors degree in health care administration and now I am a health care fraud specialist for a federal health insurance plan and an instructor for medical billing and coding courses.

But I cannot stress how important it is to get out to  your local chapter meetings and start networking. The jobs are not going to just end up in your lap and your hopes of getting to work from home in a remote position without any actual coding experience are slim to none unfortunately even though I hear this a lot from my students that this is why they are going into medical coding and billing.

You can see from the posts from the very experienced coders both certified and non-certified, it is a tough job market out there.  

I wish everyone luck in their search and to stay positive even though it can be very frustrating.


----------



## emmieg1@yahoo.com

*CPC-A Jobs*

Hi everyone

It is frustrating that they need experience before they can offer a job to a CPC-A. I became a CPC-A in September and honestly there is no hospital, building, clinic, urgent care,employment agency, career builder, etc,etc that does not have my resume. 

I applied everywhere not only for coding, but also for patient registration, dietary aide, and medical records. Just get your foot in, work for 6 months and then you can start applying for the inside jobs in coding. Meanwhile make friends in there for connection, go to your charter meetings and network. 

Almost always you can meet someone that knows a place that hires. Also, I think what helps is you take the extra classes in CPC-H, E/M, and the ICD-10. I am almost done with my CPC-H, and in November I will be taking my E/M class, and in January my ICD-10. All that I made available information in my applications for jobs.

It has been barely two weeks and I got my first job interview for an outpatient coder for a big Hospital. I am so excited and I hope I do well in my interview and my coding test for the job. So, be patient, pray to God for help, network, go to charter meetings and show interest in getting more certifications. Good luck to all and I do pray for all to get a job very soon.

If anyone is interested to take online classes for CPC-H, E/M, and ICD-10 they are only a couple of months, and taught from one of the best AAPC credited instructor. Her name is Lynn Schoeler, I have taken my classes from her.

 Her website is www.certifiedcodertraining.com and her e-mail is lynn@certifiedcodertraining.com. Her phone is Toll free: 866-737-3701. Please mention that her student (me) referred you to the school.

Take care all and good luck 

Emmie Gouvisis CPC-A

REMEMBER, YOU ARE ALREADY  A WINNER, YOU PASSED A DIFFICULT CODING TEST. HOW MANY DO YOU KNOW WHO WERE ABLE TO DO THAT- FORGET YOUR CLASSMATES, I AM TALKING ABOUT EVERYONE ELSE YOU MEET IN YOUR EVERYDAY ROUTINE.
CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## emmieg1@yahoo.com

*CPC-A Jobs*

Hi everyone

It is frustrating that they need experience before they can offer a job to a CPC-A. I became a CPC-A in September and honestly there is no hospital, building, clinic, urgent care,employment agency, career builder, etc,etc that does not have my resume. 

I applied everywhere not only for coding, but also for patient registration, dietary aide, and medical records. Just get your foot in, work for 6 months and then you can start applying for the inside jobs in coding. Meanwhile make friends in there for connection, go to your charter meetings and network. 

Almost always you can meet someone that knows a place that hires. Also, I think what helps is you take the extra classes in CPC-H, E/M, and the ICD-10. I am almost done with my CPC-H, and in November I will be taking my E/M class, and in January my ICD-10. All that I made available information in my applications. 

It has been barely two weeks and I got my first job interview for an outpatient coder for a big Hospital. I am so excited and I hope I do well in my interview and my coding test for the job. So, be patient, pray to God for help, network, go to charter meetings and show interest in getting more certifications. Good luck to all and I do pray for all to get a job very soon.

If anyone is interested to take online classes for CPC-H, E/M, and ICD-10 they are only a couple of months, and taught from one of the best AAPC credited instructor. Her name is Lynn Schoeler, I have taken my classes from her.

 Her website is www.certifiedcodertraining.com and her e-mail is lynn@certifiedcodertraining.com. Her phone is Toll free: 866-737-3701. Please mention that her student (me)   referred you to the school.

Take care all and good luck 

Emmie Gouvisis CPC-A

PLEASE REMEMBER THAT YOU ARE TRULY WINNERS. YOU PASSED A DIFFICULT CODING TEST. THAT IS A GREAT SUCCESS ITSELF. CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## AHVC

It sounds like your determination is really paying off.  GREAT JOB!!!!!! and Good luck at your job interview.


----------



## mlwatson2005 

*Cpc-a -*

I just want to say that I know the job search part is very hard.  I stayed in a position for 6 years waiting for the right one to open -but when it did.. it was WELL worth the wait.  My circumstances were probably different, I wasnt an apprentice, but sometimes things just are what they are.  

I agree that attitude is key when you are trying for ANYthing new.  

Present yourself in a positive light- focus on what you HAVE to offer.  

        For Exanple:   Instead of starting out with how hard the job search has been, try this:  " I have __ years experience as a biller/coder, I have __ years experience as an MA,LPN, MOT, etc.  and I have worked in the medical field for __years.  I am a hard worker, loyal employee and am not a partaker in office drama. " 

The interview is not the place to vent about how hard its been to find a job or how frustrating it is to have an opportunity to get experience.  Sometimes you might even have to start out in a lower position to work UP to what you want to do (or start out as a temp)- - but at least its a foot in the door.  You will have benefits, you will be gaining experience and they learn about you, you learn about them and they can SEE that you are what you have advertised.  Doors will open and you will be given the chance to prove yourself.  

Just a thought 

LaNeice Watson, CPC-H, HBA, HCM


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## DMRgn2010

mlwatson2005  said:


> I just want to say that I know the job search part is very hard. I stayed in a position for 6 years waiting for the right one to open -but when it did.. it was WELL worth the wait. My circumstances were probably different, I wasnt an apprentice, but sometimes things just are what they are.
> 
> I agree that attitude is key when you are trying for ANYthing new.
> 
> Present yourself in a positive light- focus on what you HAVE to offer.
> 
> For Exanple: Instead of starting out with how hard the job search has been, try this: " I have __ years experience as a biller/coder, I have __ years experience as an MA,LPN, MOT, etc. and I have worked in the medical field for __years. I am a hard worker, loyal employee and am not a partaker in office drama. "
> 
> The interview is not the place to vent about how hard its been to find a job or how frustrating it is to have an opportunity to get experience. Sometimes you might even have to start out in a lower position to work UP to what you want to do (or start out as a temp)- - but at least its a foot in the door. You will have benefits, you will be gaining experience and they learn about you, you learn about them and they can SEE that you are what you have advertised. Doors will open and you will be given the chance to prove yourself.
> 
> Just a thought
> 
> LaNeice Watson, CPC-H, HBA, HCM


 
Thanks, LaNeice! That is great advice and positive advice. I had been wondering what to tell them when they ask me about my unemployment. I have been studying and reviewing again for my CPC retake in Dec. I believe I'm understanding how to look for the correct code(s) in the coding manuals and not spending too much time on the question/scenario. So I hope my extensive practicing and studying will help me to pass it this time. Also, I know I spent too much time on a lot of the E/M questions which I'm not very good at... but I am understanding it better with more practice. Here's hoping and praying!


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## emmieg1@yahoo.com

AHVC said:


> It sounds like your determination is really paying off.  GREAT JOB!!!!!! and Good luck at your job interview.



Thank you for your kind words. My interview was today, I thought it went pretty well. The HIM Director made me feel very comfortable. I will know next week if I got the job. If not, there is a possibility I can work there as an Intern, no pay of course. If they like me I have a better chance of being hired as a permanent employee.It is all in God's help.

Thank you

Emmie Gouvisis


----------



## rthames052006

*Good luck- wishing you the best!*



emmieg1@yahoo.com said:


> Thank you for your kind words. My interview was today, I thought it went pretty well. The HIM Director made me feel very comfortable. I will know next week if I got the job. If not, there is a possibility I can work there as an Intern, no pay of course. If they like me I have a better chance of being hired as a permanent employee.It is all in God's help.
> 
> Thank you
> 
> Emmie Gouvisis



I am wishing you the best of luck on getting this job!  You have such a positive outlook.... even if you can get teh internship, as you said it could lead to employement.

Good Luck!


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## mmorningstarcpc

Emmie,

I add my good wishes to Roxannes.  It does pay off by remaining positive and taking initiative.

Best of luck!


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## jnewberry

Never give up! I am a coding director in a billing company in Grand Rapids, MI.
It is always nice to have those experienced coders, but with them you have to bring on all of the bad ideas or habits that they carry with them.
We have been doing some hiring for coders.  I personally feel that it is nice to take coders right out of school.....they are eager and willing to learn, with fresh ideas and positive attitudes. You are important to the coding world and in the year 2013 when ICD-9 changes to ICD-10 there is going to be a big need for coders because some of those that do not want to learn ICD-10 is going to parting ways with their jobs. Learn all you can and you will come across someone like myself that believes in each and everyone of you.

Best of Luck and don't give up.


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## ealasaid76

*Jnewb*

I wish there were more managers like you!  I'm a hard working and eager apprentice that is willing and able to learn anything.

Like everyone else, I've been applying everywhere and anywhere.  It's a catch-22:  Where do you get the experience you need?  

That should be addressed.


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## 1224927

I am having the same problem but i just graduated. I have spoken to people in meetings and at my internship and even though they are saying that their own work is swamped and are having trouble keeping up with work load, one place even got rid of a position when one gal left. They are not allowed to hire any more. I know that these clinics and hospitals are not hurting for money and people get sick no matter what the economy is doing so why? I really don't get it. I am one of the last few in my class to get a job but I have placed more effort than they have-getting certified and going to meetings. I apply to about 2-3 a day and I dont even get an email saying no thanks- how rude right? I know that when my certification comes up i will not go for it again, I might not even pay any dues cause this is not helping me out at all like it is supposed to.

I don't know what tricks there are to this but I am frustrated and need to go and pay for schooling so off to those deadend jobs I go right.


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## cheermom68

*no jobs*

One reason why hospitals are cutting back is that they are suffering from increased bad debt because patients are not able to pay their bills.  Also, insurers are cutting back on payment and the RAC program is taking back money from the hospitals.  They are also having to pay increased amounts for their own employees health benefits.  I realize that people still get sick, but hospitals suffer on their bottom line just like everyone else.

LeeAnn


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## Grintwig

Cheermom68 is right and not only are the hospitals hurting but all physician's offices are. Insurance companies have cut payments for procedures and E/M. On top of that Medicare one of the largest (if not THE largest) payers has been in a sort of limbo for quite a while now. The fee schedule has been a mess for the last 2+ years and it doesn't look like there will be any real resolution to this. At one point this year it looked as if physician payments were going to be cut by 21% which is huge especially when you consider a physician's office's overhead. At this point we are looking at an almost 30% cut on January 1st if the SGR isn't corrected/fixed. Physician's offices are scrambling to cut costs as much as they can in the event that this cut comes to pass. So far it has been stalled/delayed several times but the possibility makes everyone very tense.
I will admit I got very lucky in getting the job I did with absolutely no experience and right before the health care issue blew up. In my area no one starts off at what my employers started me off at even with experience. It took me 6 months to find my job but it was well worth all of the interviews and resumes. I just kept plugging away and mailing resumes, studying, reading everything I could about coding and using every free resource I could
For new coders the best advice is what everyone else has been saying. Apply for everything, be willing to start anywhere and work your way up, keep studying and perfecting your skills. A good employee who has proven themselves willing to work, willing to be flexible, and willing to grow and learn in the field is even more valuable in the healthcare field now than ever before.


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## heyerflowers@gmail.com

*Making the right connections*

My mother told me, if I wanted to harvest a crop, I had to pick up the shovel and dig! It is possible to find a entry level coding position, but you may have to work for it.  Here are some stratagies that may prove helpful for you:  1.  Working as an entry level claims adjustor where you get experience reading medical charts can be a beginning toward moving into a position as a coder.  2.  Most people that I know began their career by being in the right place at the right time.  And to do that  you have to make connections in your community getting the word out that you have the credenial.  Every time you see a doctor, go to an urgent care facility or hospital, it is always worth while to find out the name of the person who does the hiring .... and then following up with that person....   3.  Keep a clean copy of your resume and a business card (call card with your contact information) handy (like in the trunk of your car).  4.  Get on the planning board for community activities so that you rub elbows with the rght people -- is there a walk for breast cancer or a dinner at a local church for a local child in need of a transplant-- getting to know people who are in a position to suggest you as a perspective coder for a doctor who needs one is so important.  Word of mouth is always the best advertisement!  6.  While waiting for your opportunity, voluneer for hospice or the oncology department in the local hospital, etc.  (great for the resume).  You get the idea.  6.  Having dual certifications of nurse and coder are prized among perspective employers.  So, if you aren't in the right place right now --- and you really like the medical field, then, begin a two year certificate program and become a nurse, too. If you could pass the AAPC or AHEMA exams, you have what it takes to do this too.  Just don't sit around being frustrated ....working toward a nursing certificate may hold the key. 
 And, hey, I wish you well in your endeavor:


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## CAO0921

Hi, I have a wonderful job, but very stressful.  I have many years of experience in the medical field and know quite alot, but I think I don't give myself enough credit where experience is involved as far as everyone wants there money taken care of by people who are not even up on the latest information.  I also have my CPC, and I know everyone wants experience.  Just, keep trying that is all I can say!


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## charlenes1214@yahoo.com

Kelly I live in a town with a VA hospital.  What do you suggest I do or say to them?

Thanks
Charlene Sales, CPC-A


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## Peter Davidyock

Charlene,
You could try doing what I did. I told the folks at my last interview that I would scrub the toilets, sweep the floors and empty the trash cans if they would hire me.
They did....and I don't. lol
But my willingness to commit to any unpleasant task demontrated my motivation.
It's worth a shot. It worked for at least one of us.


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## mprfrosty185

I'm an Information Technology professional, with 20+ years of experience in the business. I've been recognized as a mentor and a leader, have an expert level computer skillset, embody the term "self starter", have years of experience in customer service, and have a commitment to providing quality work.

I became a certified coder back in April 2010. I excelled during the training, so much so that I was asked to substitute for trainers while they missed class. I perfomed well on the CPC exam - 88%. I feel that I possess an exceptional resume (listing THREE Fortune 500 companies), have excellent written and verbal communication skills, and would be an asset to any organization that would provide me the opportunity.

My results after eight months of searching for a job is ONE rejection letter. Most of the companies in the area won't even respond with that. I see all of the jobs listed locally (I reside in the Northern Cincinnati suburbs), yet NO ONE seems to want to give a CPC-A a chance to get their foot in the door. I find that totally absurd, because if anyone has the pedigree to be a success in this business, whether it be in billing, coding, customer service, teaching, whatever, I tend to feel that it would be me.

After eight months, I have to feel that training and certification is leading to nothing more than dead ends. I won't denigrate myself to scrub toilets or sweep floors to get my foot in the door. Should we be throwing more money at further training & certifications within this field, or is it time to cut our losses and look at other professions?


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## vwest7817

Has anyone tried the "Virtual Experience: Apprentice Removal" option?
I'm thinking about it, but would like to hear from other CPC-A coders and get your impressions.

Virginia in San Diego


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## jticbs

@ Virginia in San Diego, to remove the A from CPC title, you have to code correctly 720 op-note out of 800. You have two trials to do this. If still fail, you have to pay again. The fee is about $200. I have never tried this. In my opninion, it is a lot of work and I'm not ready yet. If you think you are ready, go for it. Best of luck

Johnathan Tran, CPC-A


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## kevbshields

mprfrosty:

Have you applied at IT and EMR vendors?  It's becoming more common to find people with combinations of education and experience from HIM and IT; however, it is unusual to find a certified coder with IT experience (at least in my area).  These vendors need (now more than ever) to gain a foot hold of credibility in this time of HIM transition.  I would imagine that with your skill set, you'd be a nice fit for multiple positions available through those vendors.

Regardless, with a strong Resume that points toward experience outside of health care, network at local chapter meetings.  Find a hiring manager who can critique your Resume and suggest updates.  Also, since you are savvy with IT, create a presentation for your local chapter--I'm sure they'd love a speaker with this combination of experiences.  This highlights your professionalism and may open doors for you.

Good luck.


----------



## CCrooms

*I agree, what can be done?*

Hi, my name is Cynthia.  I live in Detroit, MI.  Although I recently finshed a Medical Insurance Billing and Coding course at Everest with a 4.0/4.0 GPA (HONORS) I have not been able to land a job.  This is crazy.  I went through the entire 8 month program with stella grades 4.0 from day one, and I am sitll not able to land a job in this field.  I participated in the Student Leader program (Ambassador Igniters), I even worked as a student work study during the same time period, and still graduated with honors.  The last month of the course we were required to work in an externship.  I worked for a Billing Company.  They did every type of billing imaginable.  I worked on follow-up (I loved it)  I found thousands as errors, and dollars that needed to be resubmitted for payment.  I think that because I was new and found all of these errors committed by veteran staff with an average 5 years of work experience, I was not hired.  If it was me, I would think that I had found a jewel.  I would have though:  wow this person is just coming out of school and can help this much with recouping moneys that would have not been seen, oh I need to hire her.  But not so much.

I read your entry, and I think that something should be done.  There should be an incentive for employers to hire new students that graduate from Billing programs with good grades.  Also those that receive certification should receive a signing bonus for doing so before being hired.  How is the world of Billing going to change and become better if those that are already in the field are scared for new talent to correct errors that are made.  How are the new people supposed to learn about how the system works -- and then change it or tweak it so that it gets better.  The system is broke and it needs to be fixed.


----------



## Pattis47@gmail.com

*I think you just learned how the system works !*

I have been looking since April.  And like you, I see the inequity in the system.  However, as many before me have found out, without networking, you will not get in this field.  It is very much like the "Good Ole Boys" political system.  It is not what you know, but who you know.  By finding those errors, you found a chink in the armour of the supervisor, dept mgr, human resources, etc.  There is no way any one of those supervisory people can go to their boss and say, our seasoned people are costing us money, so lets hire this new person to correct it.  They look at it like that would be admitting they are not on top of their job and possibly put it in jeopardy.  They fail to realize the boss would be thrilled to recoup more revenue and probably thank them for correcting the problem.  Keep looking, keep your head up and when you feel down and out just remember ICD-10 is coming and many of those people will not be able to make the switch.  Our job is out there it is just a matter of time.

Another path you might want to look into is auditing.  RAC is doing spot audits and have been hiring people to do that.  I don't know where you are, but with a little research, you can certaily find out how to apply.  You have a proven track record for finding errors,  they would love you.  It stands to reason if they were undercoding in that office, chances are they were making other mistakes also.  Just a thought.  Keep me posted



CCrooms said:


> Hi, my name is Cynthia.  I live in Detroit, MI.  Although I recently finshed a Medical Insurance Billing and Coding course at Everest with a 4.0/4.0 GPA (HONORS) I have not been able to land a job.  This is crazy.  I went through the entire 8 month program with stella grades 4.0 from day one, and I am sitll not able to land a job in this field.  I participated in the Student Leader program (Ambassador Igniters), I even worked as a student work study during the same time period, and still graduated with honors.  The last month of the course we were required to work in an externship.  I worked for a Billing Company.  They did every type of billing imaginable.  I worked on follow-up (I loved it)  I found thousands as errors, and dollars that needed to be resubmitted for payment.  I think that because I was new and found all of these errors committed by veteran staff with an average 5 years of work experience, I was not hired.  If it was me, I would think that I had found a jewel.  I would have though:  wow this person is just coming out of school and can help this much with recouping moneys that would have not been seen, oh I need to hire her.  But not so much.
> 
> I read your entry, and I think that something should be done.  There should be an incentive for employers to hire new students that graduate from Billing programs with good grades.  Also those that receive certification should receive a signing bonus for doing so before being hired.  How is the world of Billing going to change and become better if those that are already in the field are scared for new talent to correct errors that are made.  How are the new people supposed to learn about how the system works -- and then change it or tweak it so that it gets better.  The system is broke and it needs to be fixed.


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## Pattis47@gmail.com

*Wait*

I took everyones advice from this forum and called the local hospitals, doctors, and billing companies and did my research.  Before you spend any more money on AAPC call your local billing offices and ask them if they will hire you without the "A".  I did that and not one company was willing to hire me because I still didn't have 2 years CODING experinnce.  I was told time and again, with the economy the way it is they can hire coders with 5-10 yrs exp for the same money they would pay me.  My rebuttal to them was; but do they know the new codes, and updates that we were taught in the class and have kept up with after our schooling ended.  Do they go to regular update seminars or do they just code what they know from the past and have their claims returned and dont know why.  Some of the people were honest and admitted they didn't send their employees for continuing education refreshers.  Others didn't answer, but you could see the wheels in their head start to spin with the thought that maybe they did have a complacency problem that might be costing them money.



semaxwell1 said:


> This just came out last week. This sounds very promising and wonderful. As soon as I get certified, I am definitely going to try this out.
> 
> http://ht.ly/2CmAe
> 
> Virtual Experience: Apprentice Removal
> 
> As an alternative to on-the-job experience, a CPC-A may earn the removal of the apprentice designation by accurately coding 800 operative notes virtually. The operative notes are real, redacted notes representing 17 specialties and are available to code online. We believe this experience will closely simulate coding in a multi-specialty practice. This will serve two purposes for the CPC-A. First, it will enable the removal of the apprentice designation without having to get a job, which is often difficult to obtain without experience. Second, it gives the coder a proficiency score to show to potential employers to provide evidence of coding skills.


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## Emily Kort

*CPC-A Shares Your Frustration*

I earned my CPC-A in November of 2009 and have been searching for a paid medical office position since.  Currently, I work five days a week at my (non-medical ) paying job and two days a week at my free job as a retrograde chart auditor in a family practice.  In the past seven months, I took just 10 days off from both jobs to catch my breath.  This pace is the hardest thing I have ever done and I see no end in sight. I am in too deep to quit now!  I have determined that my problem is that I have no mentor and I am not well-connected in the medical field because I am a career transitioner.  I was having too many hopeless feelings and decided to take up weighlifting to increase my endorphins and improve my outlook--I seem to have less hopless feelings now, so that's a good thing.  In our Great Lakes region, this is a typical scenario.  No one I went to classes with has a job, either.  In fact, our AAPC chaper has almost 500 members and 80% of them are unemployed CPC-As.  What can I say? Keep putting one foot in front of the other and give yourself a hug.


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## helenofcoding

I too am a bit nervous about the future prospect of finding a coding job. Although I have my RHIT, CTR and a BS degree in Health Science I spent the bulk of my HIM career in Cancer Registry work. I have many years experience with chart review, abstracting and ICD-0 coding (ICD-0 coding though is not even in the same intense league as inpatient coding) BUT I am hoping that it will carry some weight with a prospective employer. I recently contacted a former supervisor (she is an RHIA and HIM/Director) and asked her for some solid advice on how best to build my resume and market myself. She is familiar with my work and has encouraged me to build upon my exsisting strength(s) in Oncology and has advised me to get my CCS-P (via AHIMA) since I have an RHIT and my CPC and CHONC (via AAPC). She further advised me to take formal classes on ICD-10 (via AHIMA & AAPC) and make certain to highlight these courses on my resume. She made a very valid point in that effective October 1 2013 we will all be beginners again and that the playing field will be more level as no one will have "3 - 5 years experience with ICD-10." She told me that she will be looking at "where coders received their training, and what steps they took on their own to prepare for ICD-10." She also informed me that she expects to lose coders who have been at it for years and do not wish to make the transition. Above all she said keep studying Anatomy and Physiology as those who are strong in A & P will be the ones who will excel. I certainly hope she is right as I plan to take her advice.....any thoughts???


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## jjones12

*Looking for coding job in maryland area.*

Hello, I'm looking for a coding job in the MD/DC area.  I obtained by CPC in Aug 2009.  I have been working in the healthcare field for over 10 years.   I currently work for a physician at a hospital in the Baltimore area but they do not hire new coders.  I'm greatful for having a job, but I would like to focus on coding.   If anyone know of any openings please let me know.   I am willing to travel if I have to.

Thanks,

Gail.


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## anapravnik

*Huge increase in memberhip*

I agree with the previous posts regarding the ooportunities that will present themselves 
with the implementation of ICD-10. It struck me last night when I was reading my latest issue of the Coding Edge that in five years, AAPC membership has literally doubled.
Forgive me if not exactly correct as I do not have the publication in front of me, but I believe it went something like this:

Membership:

1990's - 2,000
2000 - 5,000
2005 - 50,000
2010 -just hit the 100,000 mark!!!

Again, these could be off in the earlier years as it is just from memory, but I am certain of the jump from 2005 to 2010 because it was so astronomical. That is not to say that all of the members were able to pass their exam and get certified, and of course many of them I'm sure are CPC-A's. However, we can all agree that the number of positions for coders and the jobs that are needing to be filled has not increased by 50,000 in the last five years. I found this figure very interesing.


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## eavilez

*No coding jobs for entry level!*

I am also a new coder and have found it very difficult to get my foot in the door.  All I read is experience only, usually they want more than 3 yrs of experience.  It is very fustrating that they wont give us entry level a chance.


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## kevbshields

Folks:

Networking is very important.  It allows you to know someone who _may_ help you land a job.  However, tantamount to networking is the technical skill behind it.  I once worked with a grade "A" networker.  This person could market better than the drug companies.  Catch was, he didn't have any substantial skill to act as his foundation.  The perception may very well be that you have to "know someone" to get where you're going.  In all but one (1) job I've had, I knew no one when I walked through the doors.  It was technical skill and soft skills that helped me edge over the other candidates.

Please remember that your foundation begins at the bottom--not the second story.  Spend time looking for jobs on the employment searches that are not necessarily coding or billing.  There are multiple opportunities for experience that translate to coding out of the following HIM and revenue cycle jobs:


File Clerk*
Release of Information*
Data Entry*
Chart Completion Analyst
Customer Service
Patient Registration
Financial Analyst/Counselor
Medical Administrative Asst*
Claims Specialist
Medical Receptionist
Accounts Receivable
Claims examiner
Dental office assistant
Medical Records Tech*
Medical Collections Specialist
Enrollment Specialist/Insurance Verification
Patient Advocate
Medical Customer Service Rep
Insurance Reimbursement Specialist*
Revenue Analyst/Tech
Admissions Clerk

These are just to name a few that I encountered on job boards.  Point being, your skills as a certified coder can be put to great use outside of production coding jobs.  Although you may aim to be a production coder (or something else), consider any of these options to help you in attaining that goal.

As demonstration that we all start somewhere, the * above represent duties and/or positions that I held prior to becoming a coder.


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## Pattis47@gmail.com

Kevin,  
  Just wanted to thank you for your comments.  However, do I use CPC-FC to indicate I want to be a file clerk, or CPC-DE for data entry.  I spent a year of my life getting a good education to become a coder.  I lost a years salary, combined that was more than 45K.  I have had the opportunity in the past to do customer service, data entry, file clerk, and other entry level jobs and none of them required a CPC.  
  I want to believe you meant well with your comments, but next time think about your words before you demean us.  Your bio indicates you have 9 years experience.  Is that all with the same company?  Did you start in data entry or as a file clerk?  Again, I hope you meant well, but I cannot afford to take a 20K annual pay cut to be a file clerk.


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## mmorningstarcpc

Patti,

Kevin made a very valid point.  I am sure he in no way meant to demean anyone.  I have been in this field for almost 30 years.  My first job out of college, with an AA degree, was a medical secretary, my second was a medical receptionist.  I then worked as a medical records clerk in a prison.  My point being, we all started somewhere.  With each position you learn, the more you learn, the further you will go.  Dream jobs are not handed to anyone but the very lucky few.  We all had to "pay our dues" just like newer coders (or any profession) will have to do.  Its not an easy world sometimes....

Good luck to you!!


----------



## Pam Brooks

Pattis47@gmail.com said:


> Kevin,
> Just wanted to thank you for your comments.  However, do I use CPC-FC to indicate I want to be a file clerk, or CPC-DE for data entry.  I spent a year of my life getting a good education to become a coder.  I lost a years salary, combined that was more than 45K.  I have had the opportunity in the past to do customer service, data entry, file clerk, and other entry level jobs and none of them required a CPC.
> I want to believe you meant well with your comments, but next time think about your words before you demean us.  Your bio indicates you have 9 years experience.  Is that all with the same company?  Did you start in data entry or as a file clerk?  Again, I hope you meant well, but I cannot afford to take a 20K annual pay cut to be a file clerk.



In defense of Kevin, I would like to point out that you chose to quit your job and take a pay cut to get your coding education, and if you expected to start out at 45K, you were sadly misinformed.  

I am exhaused at the volume of new coders who have posted on this board,  thinking that coding was going to be some kind of get-rich-quick scheme whereby they would train for eight weeks and make six figures....and now are ticked off because it didn't pan out.  Skill number one for coders is to be able to do your research.  Enough said.  

Kevin made some very valid suggestions, and if you're truly dedicated to beginning a career in the coding field, you'd be wise to take his advice.  Your high and mighty attitude about being just a file clerk is disappointing.  We all started somewhere.  I started by answering phones and posting payments for 7 bucks an hour, in case you're interested.  I don't think Kevin's post was at all demeaning, but you've made it that way with your reluctance to start where everyone starts....at the bottom.  It was an unfortunate comment, and remember, managers are reading this board. Good luck, and hopefully you'll be able to start at the top, as you planned.


----------



## gost

I didn't see anything demeaning in Kevin's post.  I have said before (maybe even in this thread, I'm not going back to check) that one of the problems is that instructors and schools who are offering coding classes are luring people in with unrealistic promises.  New coders are entering the job market with high expectations and are disappointed when they are unrealized.  

I started in the mailroom of a third party administrator and worked my way up to management.  I chose to change careers and become a coder.  I took a (very VERY large) pay cut.  (No, I didn't have a spouse making up the difference.  I had to change my lifestyle.)  I had to start over in patient accounts, not coding.  But because of my experience in the general field, I quickly got a coding position.  Through hard work and perseverance, I am now one of those hiring managers Pam mentioned.  (And as a manager, I can guarantee that at least some of us do look at these boards before calling an applicant for an interview.)

I truly wish the best for everyone.  What everyone needs to realize is that you cannot start at the top.  Once there was a shortage of coders and maybe there still is in some areas.  In my experience, there is not much of a shortage any more.  Managers are going to hire those with experience before they are going to hire those without.  That is only logical and is the same in any industry.  

My advice to everyone is to stop thinking it is beneath you to take a job you consider inferior to the one you want.  View every opportunity as another step toward your goal.  Take the experience you need wherever you can get it.  Use these forums to network in a positive way.  Posting that you know mare than experienced coders because you just graduated and we probably don't keep up with new codes is NOT the way to make good connections on a site filled with experienced coders.


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## ohn0disaster

The first thing that comes to mind after reading both, Kevin and Patti's, posts is "wow". I find it extremely ironic that you could call Kevin's post demeaning, Patti. If anything, I feel that YOUR post is demeaning. It comes off as you looking down your nose at those that hold postions such as those that Kevin named. Those are the positions that MANY of the coders/billers/auditors that frequent this forum started out in. You cannot find a job as a coder, but you're too good for all those job examples given, which will help get you to the position you want to be in? Kevin was merely offering helpful opinions/ options for those of you having trouble "getting your foot in the door". It's true that soooo many people think that once they pass that CPC test, you get sent your new hire paperwork along with your score. Having a certification does not secure you a job. Seeming that you are just SO ABOVE taking jobs that are for the lowly peons, I doubt you'll have much luck finding your coveted position. I find it funny that you say that you cannot afford to take a pay cut as a means to an end, but you're okay with making NOTHING because you just so much better than a file clerk. How DARE Kevin suggest such a thing!?! I can't help but wonder if your holier than thou attitude has been a major hindrance in the search for a job that lives up to your standards. Good luck, seems like you'll need it.


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## anapravnik

*Kevin's post is excellent advice.*

Pattis,
I don't think you are doing yourself any favors by getting hypersensitive when experienced coders are offering their input and providing suggestions. Kevin is certainly not demeaning you. His point is, we all had to start somewhere. I would be willing to say most members
DID start as a file clerk, receptionist, billing representative, etc. Why are these positions demeaning? They are vital to any healthcare organization and an excellent segue into coding. Many of us did make a career transition and accept a lower income for a year or two to begin getting experience and establishing ourselves in the field. 

Anyone getting an education in coding and preparing for the CPC should pretty much expect that's going to be the case for them as well. If it isn't, and you're able to be hired as a CPC-A w/ little or no experience, that's great! But that is the exception, certainly not the rule.

It's not that we haven't been in your shoes, it's that we have and we know how you can be successful in the industry. I don't know if coding instructors are making unrealistic promises about what to expect once you have completed your program, or if it's a matter of selective hearing, but too many people on this thread feel entitled to a coding position right out of school. You are not entitled, you have to work very hard. This is true in any profession.

The best of luck to you in your endeavors. Please don't dismiss the input of some of the veteran coders on this board that make every effort to be a valuable resource and give good information.


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## medcoder9

This is really disappointing. And I see a lot of threads with same topic. No job for inexperienced coders. It is true it really is not what you know but who you know. I know someone who was working as CNA, she has no formal education in coding at all nor certification, but since she has worked on that hospital a long time they hire her in coding position. Although she lost her job coz she was found to be letting someone punch her in eventhough she comes in late.


But I will not let these unfortunate truth hinder me to apply for coding jobs. Hopefully if I was given a chance for interview and they see my proficiency on practical lessons I learned in my coding certification PLUS me passing CPC certification, it is enough proof that I am ready for the job.  All I need is to 'sell' myself, by showing my knowledge and abilities to the employers.


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## btadlock1

medcoder9 said:


> This is really disappointing. And I see a lot of threads with same topic. No job for inexperienced coders. It is true it really is not what you know but who you know. I know someone who was working as CNA, she has no formal education in coding at all nor certification, but since she has worked on that hospital a long time they hire her in coding position. Although she lost her job coz she was found to be letting someone punch her in eventhough she comes in late.
> 
> 
> But I will not let these unfortunate truth hinder me to apply for coding jobs. Hopefully if I was given a chance for interview and they see my proficiency on practical lessons I learned in my coding certification PLUS me passing CPC certification, it is enough proof that I am ready for the job.  All I need is to 'sell' myself, by showing my knowledge and abilities to the employers.



I disagree with your first thought...It's not who you know, it's how flexible you are willing to be. I work for a multi-specialty/multi-practice management company - we have over 150 providers and several clinics. I'm not a coder - I started out as a commercial insurance follow-up rep, and I've done it for 3 years. I get to do a lot of coding, and analyzing coding errors, but I've also become well versed in how insurance works, payer policies, and laws and regulations, which set me up for getting my auditing certification. Sure I don't code all day, every day, but I get to use my coding skills writing appeals, and in teaching others why claims processed the way that they did. I probably could have had a coder position a while back if I had wanted it (since I was able to prove myself in follow-up), but I like the problem-solving and getting to argue that came with my job. (There's nothing more awesome than having an insurance company change their claim policies because you proved them wrong) . 

Anyways, I took the CPMA, and was immediately promoted to a new position when I passed, and I'd have never made it to this point if I had been picky about where I started out. I guess the point is, keep your mind open, or you might miss opportunities that you wouldn't have thought of on your own. 

The CPC is _preferred_ at my employer, but if you're taking an entry level position that doesn't necessarily require it, making a big deal out of it might sound like you're going to be too expensive, or at least dissatisfied with the going pay rate. Believe me, they will hire someone with no experience over a CPC in a heartbeat if they think the CPC will jump ship the second something better comes along. I've seen it happen dozens of times. They're trying to run a business, and the risk of losing someone to turnover will always seem worse than hiring someone who's not certified. If you quit, they have to start the whole process over again (advertising the opening, sorting through a pile of applications, wasted production time in interviewing, and then training the next person). It adds up.

Sell yourself as qualified, yet eager to learn more, and let your resume mention your credentials. Appearing overqualified will not help you in this field when you're just starting out.


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## sundance5656

*Finding entry level position*

I too, am a newly certified coder (9/2009). I have been applying for multiple openings, all of which have the least experience requirements. I have also not limited myself to my region. I am applying all over the country, trying to increase my chances. Out of 30 some applications, i have received 3 replies, all negative. Most of the applications i get the reply that they have received my information, and nothing more. I am intent on continuing my search, since i took it upon myself to get my coding education. I only have one question for the employers out there. You want experienced people, but how do we get our experience, unless we can get a job??


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## ohn0disaster

*Too much internet, not enough pavement hitting*

I think, also, that people are relying a bit too much on internet searching for jobs. In any given area, there are multiple doctors' offices and/or hospitals. You need to get out there and put in the foot work. Put in applications at these offices and ask to speak to an administrator. Be sure to explain that you are a certified coder BUT would be willing to take any position to get your foot in the door. Sometimes it takes some getting to know someone before trusting their ability to code. If you prove yourself to be competent in other areas of the medical field, you'll be more likely to be considered for your job of choice. I know for a fact that many times, resumes and applications that are put in online are either never looked at, or are quickly glanced at and put to the side. People like to put a face to the resume. An applicant can sound GREAT on paper and then when they walk in it's a completely different story. I know we're part of the Information Age and all, but some things just work better "old school".


----------



## DMRgn2010

ohn0disaster said:


> I think, also, that people are relying a bit too much on internet searching for jobs. In any given area, there are multiple doctors' offices and/or hospitals. You need to get out there and put in the foot work. Put in applications at these offices and ask to speak to an administrator. Be sure to explain that you are a certified coder BUT would be willing to take any position to get your foot in the door. Sometimes it takes some getting to know someone before trusting their ability to code. If you prove yourself to be competent in other areas of the medical field, you'll be more likely to be considered for your job of choice. I know for a fact that many times, resumes and applications that are put in online are either never looked at, or are quickly glanced at and put to the side. People like to put a face to the resume. An applicant can sound GREAT on paper and then when they walk in it's a completely different story. I know we're part of the Information Age and all, but some things just work better "old school".


 
I agree. I'm guilty of too much "internet" and email applications. I will do differently once I get my CPC exam and finish the seasonal job I have at Greenberg Smoked Turkeys (And preparing for my CPC exam on Dec. 11).


----------



## mmorningstarcpc

Pattis47@gmail.com said:


> I took everyones advice from this forum and called the local hospitals, doctors, and billing companies and did my research.  Before you spend any more money on AAPC call your local billing offices and ask them if they will hire you without the "A".  I did that and not one company was willing to hire me because I still didn't have 2 years CODING experinnce.  I was told time and again, with the economy the way it is they can hire coders with 5-10 yrs exp for the same money they would pay me.  My rebuttal to them was; but do they know the new codes, and updates that we were taught in the class and have kept up with after our schooling ended.  Do they go to regular update seminars or do they just code what they know from the past and have their claims returned and dont know why.  Some of the people were honest and admitted they didn't send their employees for continuing education refreshers.  Others didn't answer, but you could see the wheels in their head start to spin with the thought that maybe they did have a complacency problem that might be costing them money.



I wanted to commment on this as far as stating current coders are not up on changes if they haven't attended a seminar in the past year.  I won't say all, but almost all coders do continuing education yearly in some form or another.  I had a previous employer who paid nothing toward my certification or CEUs, but we did get new books each year and I went thru them cover to cover looking for changes and updates, as well as read anything I could get my hands on.  For you to feel you are better than seasoned coders, because you had "current schooling" over those who don't attend seminars is wrong.  I certainly can't speak for everyone, but I believe part of being a coder is knowing you have to keep up with updates in some way, shape or form, and the coders I know, believe this and do this.

Respectfully,


----------



## EMCordone

*A little hope....*

I started out in the medical industry as an admissions coordinator for a SNF. Soon after leaving, I found out I was pregnant with my little man. I decided to stay home for my pregnancy and son's first year. By the time he was out, I was going stir crazy and knew I needed to work as soon as that little bugger had his first birthday! But, I also knew that a year out of the work force (for whatever reason), would hinder my ability to find work. So, I enrolled in a local vocational school's billing and coding program. As soon as I graduated, I printed out about 200 resumes and cover letters and no joke, hit the pavement. Every morning, I hit the internet job sites and applied where applicable, then I would get on yellowpages.com and make a schedule and "route" of the places I would hand deliver my resume. I accepted my current job less than a month after graduation, even without true billing experience. The moral of my story? As cliche as it may be, "Hard work, dedication, and motivation TRULY pay off." Good luck!


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## DMRgn2010

mmorningstarcpc said:


> I wanted to commment on this as far as stating current coders are not up on changes if they haven't attended a seminar in the past year. I won't say all, but almost all coders do continuing education yearly in some form or another. I had a previous employer who paid nothing toward my certification or CEUs, but we did get new books each year and I went thru them cover to cover looking for changes and updates, as well as read anything I could get my hands on. For you to feel you are better than seasoned coders, because you had "current schooling" over those who don't attend seminars is wrong. I certainly can't speak for everyone, but I believe part of being a coder is knowing you have to keep up with updates in some way, shape or form, and the coders I know, believe this and do this.
> 
> Respectfully,


 


EMCordone said:


> I started out in the medical industry as an admissions coordinator for a SNF. Soon after leaving, I found out I was pregnant with my little man. I decided to stay home for my pregnancy and son's first year. By the time he was out, I was going stir crazy and knew I needed to work as soon as that little bugger had his first birthday! But, I also knew that a year out of the work force (for whatever reason), would hinder my ability to find work. So, I enrolled in a local vocational school's billing and coding program. As soon as I graduated, I printed out about 200 resumes and cover letters and no joke, hit the pavement. Every morning, I hit the internet job sites and applied where applicable, then I would get on yellowpages.com and make a schedule and "route" of the places I would hand deliver my resume. I accepted my current job less than a month after graduation, even without true billing experience. The moral of my story? As cliche as it may be, "Hard work, dedication, and motivation TRULY pay off." Good luck!


 
I agree, mmorningstarcpc and EMCordone. I am not experienced. Not enough. Just taking coding courses does not substitute for true coding experience. Even though I had two coding courses and spent about 7 mos. of hands-on-coding training which was a requirement for my capstone course, is not the same as actually working for two years coding in real life. There is still so much I don't know.. I might have known more than I do now regarding my coding knowledge, but not enough to qualify me to start coding on my own. I have thought about working as a "volunteer" in a coding department, but volunteers do not have access to the computer systems as paid employees. Coders, in some offices, also enter their own coding information into the system after they complete their coding tasks as do patient account posting reps (I'm not sure if that's what they're called or not) and balance what they entered at the end of each batch (after lunch and before leaving for the day). I began getting used to coding and remembering several codes after seeing the same ones every day that I was in the office. I know I could do that again. But being certified will show the employer that I am capable of being trained to code, and keeping up with coding updates, rules, regulations, and the health care laws, etc. Just merely taking courses and having a certification in coding is not enough. Same for Drs and nurses, would you want to go to a dr or nurse that just graduated and been licensed *without* experience??? Not me. Same for coders. We still need years of thorough training to be accurate with coding, and knowing the laws, etc., to keep the physicians, etc., from getting in trouble (from possible fraud, etc.) for wrongful coding and reimbursements which could be denied because someone wasn't adequately trained and qualified as a coder.

Also, it is true, about looking for jobs. You have to get out every day (which I plan on after the end of this holiday season - when I'm done working as a seasonal office assistant for Greenberg Smoked Turkeys which is my "survival" job) and after I have passed my exam.. which I hope I do this time.


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## btadlock1

Maybe that's not something that's being made clear - this is a field where your hard work and dedication actually make a significant difference in your achievements - all you have to do is get your foot in the door, and you'll quickly be where you want to be if you really show that you're a worthy employee, in general. Employers need to trust you as a person as much as they trust your skills. They require years of experience because recruiting coders and assimilating them is a time-consuming, expensive process - the expertise is important, but in this economy, 2 years experience = "I know what I'm in for, and I've worked hard and kept my skills current, for an amount of time that requires serious commitment and strong work ethic. I'm not going to be overwhelmed, and I'm not going to quit within a short amount of time."

It's really not fair, since there are a lot of people in positions that you've all worked hard to aspire to, who don't have nearly the knowledge or skills that you do, or because you've never gotten to really sharpen your skills after the exam was over; it's the same problem thousands of college grads are dealng with in other fields: you can't prove your dedication without some kind of track record within the field (unless you're one hell of a salesman). Without being able to prove your dedication, you'll never get to make a track record. It's an awful catch-22, but there is a way out.

Temp agencies  that can get you a permanent gig answering phones in a clinic are a great resource. It may take a couple of months, but eventually your employer is going to tap into your real market value, if they have any business sense. If they need another coder, what will they do? Search for an outside stranger to code, or promote the receptionist with a CPC, and hire a new receptionist? You can speed up the process, even without a temp job, if you can manage it, by searching for unpaid internships. Mention it at every job interview that's not for an actual coding job, but is somewhere that you could intern as a coder on the side. Talk about it on your resume. If you're already in the right environment, and things aren't happening for you like you'd hoped, ask around until you find someone who would let you tag along and learn from them (or maybe teach them), in your spare time.

If you're stuck in neutral, sometimes begging for internships (even unpaid ones), is they only way to get your name out there, and prove your dedication without years of on the job history to provide. Unlike your collegiate counterparts who can't find jobs with Master's degrees, your required time on the bottom is very much in your hands. I hope success finds you all, soon!


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## kladdicott

Great to know that those of us "newbies" who put everything we had into learning a trade, which we believed would lead to a career in our future are sadly misguided. If you want a job in this field it looks as though you may need to move to India!!


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## medcoder9

I am actually not opposed to moving to India or any country, preferably, England that will hire me. Please if anyone knows how to apply for coding jobs in other country...? let me know.


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## babyred72

ttsaunders1, have you tried looking for something in insurance verifications or authorizations?  That's how I got started right out of school.  I was actually hired by the company I did my externship with.  You can at least get your foot in the door somewhere.


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## shoegirl06

Hello, this is the first time I've posted, but I really wanted to chime in here.  I wish this thread was more positive.  I've read through alot of it, and agree with those that say you have to start at the bottom and work your way up.  I'm in school now for HIM and Coding and although it took me a long time,  I kept sending my resume out everywhere, and I finally got my foot in the door in a medical billing office doing administrative work part-time. Persistence is really the key...you can't give up hope.  Everyone has to start somewhere.  This is a career change for me, as I used to be a paralegal.  I knew I would  have to start in an entry level position, and learn the ropes of working in a medical office.  I know if I stay positive, am there every day, do a good job, and take on as much new responsibility possible, eventually something will open up and I will offered a promotion.  I know this won't happen overnight, and if for some reason I can't move forward at this company, at least I will be getting experience here and use it elsewhere.  Anyhow, I hope we can try to turn this thread around and get rid of the negativity and replace it with tips and advice to get new people motivated and working.


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## btadlock1

shoegirl06 said:


> Hello, this is the first time I've posted, but I really wanted to chime in here.  I wish this thread was more positive.  I've read through alot of it, and agree with those that say you have to start at the bottom and work your way up.  I'm in school now for HIM and Coding and although it took me a long time,  I kept sending my resume out everywhere, and I finally got my foot in the door in a medical billing office doing administrative work part-time. Persistence is really the key...you can't give up hope.  Everyone has to start somewhere.  This is a career change for me, as I used to be a paralegal.  I knew I would  have to start in an entry level position, and learn the ropes of working in a medical office.  I know if I stay positive, am there every day, do a good job, and take on as much new responsibility possible, eventually something will open up and I will offered a promotion.  I know this won't happen overnight, and if for some reason I can't move forward at this company, at least I will be getting experience here and use it elsewhere.  Anyhow, I hope we can try to turn this thread around and get rid of the negativity and replace it with tips and advice to get new people motivated and working.



Exactly! I was cleaning houses 3 years ago, and now I'm in charge of ICD-10 implementation for our entre company - we manage over 100 providers...you've just got to put the effort in and take every opportunity you get! If I can do it, anybody can!


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## yveblack

Thanks for the VA Hospital tip Kelly...I'll try it! 

Yvonne Blackwell, CPC-A


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## DKColson1928

*any one in the Los Angeles area?*

Possible need of coders for traing in HCC coding and compliance. Re vamping the department. 
Email me @ dkittykats@gmail.com if you are interested... will consider CPC-A also


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## jaclea

*I share the frustration*

I am having the same difficulty as all of you.  I have an IT background prior to my billing/coding education.  I am CPC-A certified.  My local chapter tells me to try and get a clerical position so I can get my foot in the door and that's what I am currently searching for.  Even those positions require prior experience.  I wish the schools would change their advertisements about help with job placements after completion of the programs.  I have friends with the same difficulty we face.  One of them is working a security job to have an income.  I wish I knew how we could change this situation to persuade employers to give us 'new' coders the experience we deserve.


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## DMRgn2010

*Volunteering, only option for experience.. for me*

I have been volunteering at Trinity Mother Frances Hosp and Business Services. I want to show them that I have the ability, ethics, skills in hopes of getting my foot in the door. For me, I feel that is the only option for me at this time. But at the same time, it has been very rewarding to help out in any way I can. I have also attempting to seek out volunteering opportunities in the coding/billing departments there at the hospital. I hope my hard work while volunteering (yes, I am a hard-worker, I can't help it, it's second nature to me) will not be in vain.

What do you all think?


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## btadlock1

Although I really hope none of you are still facing this problem for another whole month, I wanted to mention this (mostly because I'm excited about it!):

I wrote an article for Coding Edge discussing this topic...it'll be in April's edition! 

In the mean time, there are a lot of threads that have hashed and re-hashed this, so look through them...you may find what you need. Good luck to everyone!


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## cindyt

I love reading your posts   Looking forward to your article.  GOOD JOB!


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## dfortner

*I understand, as well.*

Trying to find a job without required experience is frustrating at best.  I know.  I am a CPC-A, hold a Bachelor of Science in Management and Masters in Human Resource Management and still can't find employment opportunities.  Where I live, the health care professionals do not deem credentials or education, other than their own, as value-added assets to their practice.  The hospitals in my area are the only ones who REQUIRE CPC designations.  Nonetheless, I continue to apply and keep a positive attitude.  Some avenues I have explored - law offices employ coders to review medical records; entry level positions such as medical records, patient registration, collections all give you a foot-in-the door; volunteering at local hospitals; cold submissions from local Yellow Pages; networking at local chapter meetings, as well as, e-mailing or visiting other local chapters and putting your face and name out.  I wish the best for you and know, with persistence, something will fall in your lap.


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## CCrooms

*Will it ever change for entry Level Medical Billers/Coders?*

I have been chasing the proverbial job of anything entry level.  I live in the state of Michigan.  It is more than difficult to land an entry level position here.   As many others have stated it really is difficult and frustrating to want to help and know that you have the skills, desire, and wherewithal to be an asset to anyone that will hire you.  But because we do not have a certification, or minimum work experience we are not interviewed, called, or allowed to "show what we got".

What I really get mad about is, I co submit a resume and cover letter and tailor it to the specific job, and will get an interview.  Will receive accolades, praise throughout the entire interview, and still will not be chosen.  A week or two later I receive that generic letter, or email.  ..."Although your skills and credentials are impressive, we decided to go with another 'more qualified candidate'.   Then to my horror, either a week or more later - I look out on the web, and the identical exact position has been listed again.

At this point I am thinking, "see  if you would have hired me, you would not be spending more money, and time looking for someone else."

 Just wanted to vent.

I due have 30 + years of customer service, and I can learn any software program that is out there.  Haven't tackled one I have not mastered.  But how do you transfer that to an employer.  My perspective:  No matter where you work, the principles are the same.  As long as we know the methodologies everything else can be learned.  What happened to each one teach one.  Hospitals, Physician Offices, Long Term Care facilities, and Insurance Companies are looking for billers and coders.  Why can't someone take those of us that are will to start at the bottom, and work hard to learn because we have a deep desire to learn, we have a dynamic work ethic.  Why can't we find entry-level paying positions to help with all of the follow-up that all companies need help with before that statue of limitations runs out on submission of stale dated claims? 

Myself, I LOVE doing claims-follow-up.  Research, research, research, is my middle name.

If anyone knows of someone that needs this kind of dedication and ability; contact me at: croomsc2008@yahoo.com.  In Michigan, or remote.

Thanks for this forum.


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## DMRgn2010

CCrooms said:


> I have been chasing the proverbial job of anything entry level. I live in the state of Michigan. It is more than difficult to land an entry level position here. As many others have stated it really is difficult and frustrating to want to help and know that you have the skills, desire, and wherewithal to be an asset to anyone that will hire you. But because we do not have a certification, or minimum work experience we are not interviewed, called, or allowed to "show what we got".
> 
> What I really get mad about is, I co submit a resume and cover letter and tailor it to the specific job, and will get an interview. Will receive accolades, praise throughout the entire interview, and still will not be chosen. A week or two later I receive that generic letter, or email. ..."Although your skills and credentials are impressive, we decided to go with another 'more qualified candidate'. Then to my horror, either a week or more later - I look out on the web, and the identical exact position has been listed again.
> 
> At this point I am thinking, "see if you would have hired me, you would not be spending more money, and time looking for someone else."
> 
> Just wanted to vent.
> 
> I due have 30 + years of customer service, and I can learn any software program that is out there. Haven't tackled one I have not mastered. But how do you transfer that to an employer. My perspective: No matter where you work, the principles are the same. As long as we know the methodologies everything else can be learned. What happened to each one teach one. Hospitals, Physician Offices, Long Term Care facilities, and Insurance Companies are looking for billers and coders. Why can't someone take those of us that are will to start at the bottom, and work hard to learn because we have a deep desire to learn, we have a dynamic work ethic. Why can't we find entry-level paying positions to help with all of the follow-up that all companies need help with before that statue of limitations runs out on submission of stale dated claims?
> 
> Myself, I LOVE doing claims-follow-up. Research, research, research, is my middle name.
> 
> If anyone knows of someone that needs this kind of dedication and ability; contact me at: croomsc2008@yahoo.com. In Michigan, or remote.
> 
> Thanks for this forum.


 

I, too, have had the same experience. I will not be chosen because someone else has been hired who is more qualified than I am. I'm sorry it's happening to you and a lot of others as well. 

I thought volunteering in a similar department of a job I wanted: coding, of course. But now I realized that (when and if a job opens up) I will need to look at other types of medical office jobs where I am confident that I am qualified, although I might be considered "overqualified". I need help in this too.

While working at a "survivor-paid" job even though it is not related to medical office, I am still looking for work. But I feel that because it's December, there's not many jobs in my field.


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## chshaffer41@gmail.com

*Experience is the "key word"*

I agree 100% that more should be done to help those who are searching for "experience", to obtain employment in a field they so desire, and have worked very hard to achieve, and wether or not they are fully certified. I too, am a CPC-A.  I was on these forums a while back voicing my concern about this issue, and I still feel that something has to be done to provide the experience needed.  Don't get me wrong, I totally beleive in working very hard to get what you want in life, and I don't expect it to be handed to me otherwise.  I just think that there are many schools/organiztions that offer the Coding Certification, and even though they do offer great courses, they do not offer a way to gain the experience that is needed in "real life".  I also understand that there are not as many jobs available, as there are many people looking for them.  But I think that is the problem, there needs to be some other level of training available to obtain the total "experience" needed. Like an internship/externship, or some type of apprentice level training.  As of now, I do not know of any such programs being offered.  There was an opportunity recently, with The Online Apprentice Removal Program offered through AAPC.  I myself, actually purchased the program when it first came out, almost 2 years ago.  Unfortunately, after some discussion at the AAPC, it was decided that the program was not able to meet the needs of it's members, and it now has been discontinued.  I was also a beta tester in hopes of trying to aid in helping the AAPC make this program a go, but it did not happen. I am not entirely sure what the issues were, but needless to to say, I don't understand why there can't be some way of offering a program that further helps gain the kind of experience that is acceptable, and obviously needed.

This being said, I have been fortunate to find a job in a medical office where the administrator has been gracious enough to help me with my "apprentice" status, by giving me the doc's op notes to code for practice.  I am very gratefull for this experience, and I hope at some point I will find that coding job I am working so hard to obtain.  So in the mean time, that is what I will do.  But I am really hoping that the AAPC will reconsider the options that are ,and are not, availible to it's members in reguard to this issue.  Good luck to all of you, and you absolutely have my support.


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## mvmoore

While I admire the positive attitude of your answer and agree with you in theory, the fact is if you have no experience, you almost never get to speak to anyone about your potentials, work ethic or academic achievements. Applications are almost always required to be submitted electronically and in fact I have been asked to NOT send resumes through the mail or "pop in to meet with the HR people". Inexperienced, yet certified coders send applications and resumes into the electronic void without ever knowing if they are read or filtered out by software programmed to weed out applicants without three to five years experience in the field.


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## Pam Brooks

CCrooms said:


> I have been chasing the proverbial job of anything entry level. I live in the state of Michigan. It is more than difficult to land an entry level position here. As many others have stated it really is difficult and frustrating to want to help and know that you have the skills, desire, and wherewithal to be an asset to anyone that will hire you. But because we do not have a certification, or minimum work experience we are not interviewed, called, or allowed to "show what we got".
> 
> What I really get mad about is, I co submit a resume and cover letter and tailor it to the specific job, and will get an interview. Will receive accolades, praise throughout the entire interview, and still will not be chosen. A week or two later I receive that generic letter, or email. ..."Although your skills and credentials are impressive, we decided to go with another 'more qualified candidate'. Then to my horror, either a week or more later - I look out on the web, and the identical exact position has been listed again.
> 
> At this point I am thinking, "see if you would have hired me, you would not be spending more money, and time looking for someone else."
> 
> Just wanted to vent.
> 
> I due have 30 + years of customer service, and I can learn any software program that is out there. Haven't tackled one I have not mastered. But how do you transfer that to an employer. My perspective: No matter where you work, the principles are the same. As long as we know the methodologies everything else can be learned. What happened to each one teach one. Hospitals, Physician Offices, Long Term Care facilities, and Insurance Companies are looking for billers and coders. Why can't someone take those of us that are will to start at the bottom, and work hard to learn because we have a deep desire to learn, we have a dynamic work ethic. Why can't we find entry-level paying positions to help with all of the follow-up that all companies need help with before that statue of limitations runs out on submission of stale dated claims?
> 
> Myself, I LOVE doing claims-follow-up. Research, research, research, is my middle name.
> 
> If anyone knows of someone that needs this kind of dedication and ability; contact me at: croomsc2008@yahoo.com. In Michigan, or remote.
> 
> Thanks for this forum.


 
Have you ever contacted the employer and asked why? If they gush all over you at the interview, and then choose someone else, it might be helpful to know what it was about your interview, (or you, for that matter) that they didn't feel measured up to the person that they did choose. You can certainly ask..."I felt my interview went extremely well, and I left feeling positive about this position. I'm wondering if you can give me some feed back as to why I wasn't selected" 

As a hiring manager, I typically have a 'top three' that make it to the final interview, and frankly, those interviews are usually fantastic. What it boils down to at the very end is will they fit? What stinks about that from a job candidate perspective, is that it's personal. I've had several great candidates that had wonderful qualifications, but the job involved meeting with providers, and these candidates showed up for their interviews like they just finished up working in the basement. Another candidate was just too "perky"....my staff would have killed her (after they killed me). One candidate was way too anxious....I was afraid she'd be too intimidated by the providers. So it's not always about a great resume. Sometimes it's about whether or not your personality/appearance/demeanor/ fits our environment.


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## DMRgn2010

machshaffer@aol.com said:


> I agree 100% that more should be done to help those who are searching for "experience", to obtain employment in a field they so desire, and have worked very hard to achieve, and wether or not they are fully certified. I too, am a CPC-A. I was on these forums a while back voicing my concern about this issue, and I still feel that something has to be done to provide the experience needed. Don't get me wrong, I totally beleive in working very hard to get what you want in life, and I don't expect it to be handed to me otherwise. I just think that there are many schools/organiztions that offer the Coding Certification, and even though they do offer great courses, they do not offer a way to gain the experience that is needed in "real life". I also understand that there are not as many jobs available, as there are many people looking for them. But I think that is the problem, there needs to be some other level of training available to obtain the total "experience" needed. Like an internship/externship, or some type of apprentice level training. As of now, I do not know of any such programs being offered. There was an opportunity recently, with The Online Apprentice Removal Program offered through AAPC. I myself, actually purchased the program when it first came out, almost 2 years ago. Unfortunately, after some discussion at the AAPC, it was decided that the program was not able to meet the needs of it's members, and it now has been discontinued. I was also a beta tester in hopes of trying to aid in helping the AAPC make this program a go, but it did not happen. I am not entirely sure what the issues were, but needless to to say, I don't understand why there can't be some way of offering a program that further helps gain the kind of experience that is acceptable, and obviously needed.
> 
> This being said, I have been fortunate to find a job in a medical office where the administrator has been gracious enough to help me with my "apprentice" status, by giving me the doc's op notes to code for practice. I am very gratefull for this experience, and I hope at some point I will find that coding job I am working so hard to obtain. So in the mean time, that is what I will do. But I am really hoping that the AAPC will reconsider the options that are ,and are not, availible to it's members in reguard to this issue. Good luck to all of you, and you absolutely have my support.


 


mvmoore said:


> While I admire the positive attitude of your answer and agree with you in theory, the fact is if you have no experience, you almost never get to speak to anyone about your potentials, work ethic or academic achievements. Applications are almost always required to be submitted electronically and in fact I have been asked to NOT send resumes through the mail or "pop in to meet with the HR people". Inexperienced, yet certified coders send applications and resumes into the electronic void without ever knowing if they are read or filtered out by software programmed to weed out applicants without three to five years experience in the field.


 
Thank you two for replying. It is hard to have to only send resumes electronically. I have been doing that (sending resumes electronically). I think that if the administrators of HR see an application/resume they like, they will want to schedule an interview (usually a 'screening' interview then a regular interview). The HR and the department-related interviewers who will be interviewing, will then want to meet you. Most HR employees don't have time to meet every interested candidate in person especially if they have very little office space or time to do this. But the waiting sure is hard.


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