# Frustrated new CPC-A asking for advice



## kalyeope (Mar 14, 2011)

I have my AS degree in medical billing and coding, am working on my BA in Health Information Management and passed my CPC test last month.  I have applied at over 50 places and have not even a whisper from anyone.  I wanted to do project Xtern but the one place within three hours of me no longer does it but it is still listed on the AAPC website.  I have sent information to the local hospital I used to work for to ask if they would be interested in Project Xtern, again, not a word.  I search job boards, look in local papers and anything else I can think of.  I applied through the state for an entry level position at the prison for medical records clerk.  I failed their assessment because they ask if you are certified through AHIMA but not through AAPC, though it was the AAPC Job board I found the job listed on.  I have gone so far as to appeal the test but nothing has come of it.  I am highly frustrated.

I am not asking for a free hand out.  I have studied long and hard to only hit a wall.  EVERY job I see asks for years of experience.  *HOW is one to get this coveted experience? * I have followed advice read on this board and applied for positions I don't qualify for in the hopes something might happen. Is there a point to all this?  I'm moving past frustrated into downright angry that all my efforts have been for naught.  Any advice from anyone that I haven't read on these boards yet?  Should I toss in the towel and move on to a different field? I sincerely have no idea what to do next and sitting on my bed crying simply isn't an option. I have kids to feed and bills to pay.


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## moduffy (Mar 14, 2011)

Kalyeope-I am in the same boat, but, since 2009.  I recv'd my CPC in June 2009 and CPC-H in Dec 2009...I am STILL not working..same as you..I have done all of the above.  I have just purchased the 2011 coding books and will renew my certification with AAPC, BUT, if things are still the same this time next year it will be bye bye to AAPC.  I have studied long and hard also.  I go to chapter meetings all over my state to get my CEU's and to network.  You are right, EVERYONE wants experience.  I too have hit the brick wall.  Project Xtern is the same here, no replies...My next option, which I will start on next week is to go door to door...Let me know how things work out for you.  I wish you and me the best.  I have caught up with others from my coding school and they are also still looking.  Something WILL come up....
moduffy


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## kalyeope (Mar 14, 2011)

I can empathize moduffy.  I have even considered starting the process of getting the A off of my CPC with the new program they have but...to what end?  I still can't put any experience on my resume.  Employers will still ask if I have worked in a hospital or doctors office and my answer will still be no. Its also another 200 dollars which I don't have. I will keep trying. I am even going to consider relocating this summer if I can find someone in another area that will give me a chance. I realize the economy is bad but if there are so many coder jobs out there.. how can there be none available?  I am now over educated for sooo many jobs and yet not qualified for anything else. I felt better off in my  minimum wage 40 hour a week nothing job that now I couldn't get because who wants to hire a middle aged woman with a degree and a certification when they can get a wet behind the ears teenager likely to stay longer but do a worse job?  Ah well.. venting out of my system, back to the search.


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## marivic_cinco@yahoo.com (Mar 16, 2011)

im also in the same situation with both of you... i had my cpc-a.. took it seriously! had my bachelors degree but still no luck in the coding.. we were told then that coding job is flooding and can be easy get into.. WRONG and BIG MISTAKE for us that we didnt go check around.. all the job requires atleast a year of experience! im so fraustrated already about this situation.. i just wasted my time studying and for what????


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## ohn0disaster (Mar 18, 2011)

lewisfain said:


> I have had my CPC-A since November 2009. NO ONE will hire me without experience. The only job that I can get is as a Receptionist and those types of jobs do not pay enough for me to afford after-school care and gas money. So, this month I am letting my certification go and giving up on healthcare. I am going back to school in a completely different field. I am sick to death of healthcare and wish that I had never wasted my time, money and effort on a worthless piece of paper. I wish I had never listened to all the hype about "keep trying, you'll find a job eventually and it will all be worth it." Bull! I am very frustrated and angry, but can really not be angry at anybody except myself for believing a load of crap!



Some of you may not like this but I'm pretty sick of seeing the whining on here. You're quitting? Good riddance! The door that you're shutting for yourself opens the door for someone else, so don't let it hit you in the a$$. EVERYONE is having trouble finding jobs. What exactly were you planning on doing for money until you get your next miracle piece of paper? The truth of the matter is, you can get a job as a receptionist to get your foot in the door or you can act above it and quit trying. Words of encouragement, from people who went through the same stuff you are to break into the field, are all just hype? QUIT FEELING SORRY FOR YOURSELF. We ALL have bills. We have kids. We have aspirations to do something better with our lives. You are not the only ones that have come upon hards times. Where there is a will, there is a way... unless your attitude gets in the way of your will, of course.


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## Mojo (Mar 20, 2011)

I understand your frustration and the need to vent. My new grad nursing colleagues are experiencing similar circumstances in this dismal job market. The perceived nursing shortage is a media myth. There is a staffing shortage due to cuts in reimbursement and out-of-control CEO salary and bonuses. Grads from 2009 are still seeking their first nursing job and are buried in student loan debt. The local college boasted in a newspaper article that a third of its nursing graduates had jobs while they continue to create a career logjam by pumping out more nurses. When I graduated from nursing school (back in the dark ages) it seemed the only requirement to snag a position was to have a pulse.

You worked hard to pass a grueling 5.5 hour exam. For about 33 cents a day you can maintain your certification for another year. Think about it while you are working on Plan B. Good luck to all!


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## rmickalich (Mar 20, 2011)

I can understand the frustration too, but I am the type of person that will never give up.  I have worked too hard to get where I am today.  I am RHIT, CCS and CPC certified with 7 years of experience in outpatient coding and graduated in 2008.  I worked in a 36-bed sized facility for 7 years and in my opinion it did not help me due to the lack of HIM professionals in the facility that I worked in, but I did a lot of self-studying to do better myself and still continue to do so now.

My favorite quotes and words of advice – "Successful people are always looking for opportunities to help others. Unsuccessful people are always asking, "What's in it for me?" 

"When you judge another, you do no define them, you define yourself".

Unfortunately, there are a lot of colleges and programs that advertise falsely and the statistics for jobs are questionable.  For those going into the field do your homework: check the job needs in your area before going into the field.  In my opinion, it seems like if a person is willing to travel for awhile you would have a better chance of getting your foot in the door, but I can understand that many are in the same boat as I am and cannot do that do to family situations.

Thanks Mojo for the positive and professional words.  Kalyeope – keep up the positive attitude and do not give up, especially when you have a college education along with your certifications.  My opinion – self study and do not depend on others to be successful. 

p.s. Books that I found to be useful – AHIMA's clinical coding workout.


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## rthames052006 (Mar 20, 2011)

*Agreed!!!!*



ohn0disaster said:


> Some of you may not like this but I'm pretty sick of seeing the whining on here. You're quitting? Good riddance! The door that you're shutting for yourself opens the door for someone else, so don't let it hit you in the a$$. EVERYONE is having trouble finding jobs. What exactly were you planning on doing for money until you get your next miracle piece of paper? The truth of the matter is, you can get a job as a receptionist to get your foot in the door or you can act above it and quit trying. Words of encouragement, from people who went through the same stuff you are to break into the field, are all just hype? QUIT FEELING SORRY FOR YOURSELF. We ALL have bills. We have kids. We have aspirations to do something better with our lives. You are not the only ones that have come upon hards times. Where there is a will, there is a way... unless your attitude gets in the way of your will, of course.



Vanessa,

Thank you so much for your comments!  I can honestly say that I rarely get on the forums anymore because it seems to be more and more complainers/whiners etc...  When I get on here and read these posts... it just makes me sick!! 

I said it once before and will say it briefly again...  Before going into any field regardless if it's medical or not...You really should do your homework and "research" the job market in your area, see what employers in that field are looking for BEFORE you go giving any school your hard earned money!!!  I can't say for certain but I'm assuming no one twisted your arm or held a gun to your head and said " you have to get into the coding field" or else?

I started off as a Nursing Assistant then made my way to receptionist, then business office and various medical related jobs in between.  In 2004 I was a medical biller for an IM practice and I decided to check AAPC by the tip of an intern we had ( never heard of AAPC) until that moment.  My job at the time didn't require me to have a CPC but I thought I'd try it and see what happens... In 2004 I purchased what was then the ISP Program thru AAPC finished it in 4 months, took my exam and passed but was still not coding but I was happy with just billing... in 2006 I got that "itch" to code and nothing else...I applied for all types of "coding only" jobs and never got them because I didn't have the experience... finally in July 2010 I got my 1st break into coding and it was the Compliance Office... I left that job in the Compliance Dept and went back to my old employer to work in their Compliance office and I couldn't be happier... Did it happen over night?  Heck no... it took me 5 years... no complaint's about the "climb" I finally made it.... things do take time, things don't happen overnight and also for some of you... Beware~ we have quite a few hiring managers who are on these Forums everyday reading your posts and forming opinions.... You never know who is looking, it could be that job inteview you're looking for!!!!

I wish you all luck in your future endeavors and I hope you all find what you are looking for... it took me 5 years...


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## twizzle (Mar 20, 2011)

*CPC-A frustration*

I fully empathise and understand your frustration. A lot will depend on where you are located though. We advertised for a certified coder (a company requirement is that all new-hires are certified). It is a full time position with benefits and we got one applicant. I guess low wages in Florida may be part of the reason.


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## Mojo (Mar 20, 2011)

wassock said:


> I fully empathise and understand your frustration. A lot will depend on where you are located though. We advertised for a certified coder (a company requirement is that all new-hires are certified). It is a full time position with benefits and we got one applicant. I guess low wages in Florida may be part of the reason.



Oh, but we get paid in sunshine.


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## ohn0disaster (Mar 21, 2011)

Yeah, I see some of the certified coder wages in other states and I'm like DAMN. I get paid like a little over half as much, lol. I have got to say, though, I LOVE my job. I am really happy and comfortable working where I work. One good thing that I can say is, although we may not get the high wages down here, we do get some nice bonuses and benefits (at least that's how it is at the company that I work for). I make a comfortable living. I'm able to pay all my bills and still have money for play. Plus, we don't have to worry about shoveling the snow out of our driveways so that we can drive to work on the icey roads! 

Anyway, I agree that location can definitely be a factor if you live in an undeveloped area. Down here, in South Florida, there are doctors' offices EVERYWHERE. I find it really hard to believe that people have difficulty finding work down here, IF THEY ARE CERTIFIED. 

One thing that I wanted to add to this thread, which I have said in previous threads, is that a lot of you rely way too much on the internet for your job searching. You guys need to get out there and walk into these different offices/clinics/hospitals etc. Do it the old fashioned way. Dress up professionally, put on your big boy/girl pants, watch your speech, try to sound educated and don't use a bunch of slang, have professional looking resumes in hand and hit the pavement! Putting a face to the resume REALLY helps. Believe me, I see it all the time. You never know what's behind the computer screen. Coming in and speaking to the administrator gives you the opportunity to make a good first impression. You need to open up opportunities to stand out of the crowd for yourselves!

To those of you determined to succeed, good luck. Keep going and you WILL get there!


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## tnypow (Mar 23, 2011)

*"... a lot of you rely way too much on the internet for your job searching"*

I'm a "newbie"... coding-wise (I'm middle-aged, laid-off, career-switcher) and I am in the same situation others have described...and I AGREE with you...up to a point.

I did my homework before jumping in and noticed the "Catch-22" certification/experience thing back in 2009.

This is how it goes now...(at least in the NYC area).

The trouble/frustrating thing is that no matter what you do, you [U]will be referred to the Internet...even when you're standing in the HR DEPT talking to a live person!  You see, nowadays, the HR dept is for people who already work there!  Hiring?  See our Corporate Office...(situated way away from the hospital). In NYC, almost all of the hospitals are under the "umbrella" of 3 or 4 corporate entities...apply at one, and you've applied at all their affiliated hospitals...however, (catch-22!!) entry level is first offered to "insiders", after that, now you have a chance.

One huge hospital wouldn't let me set foot (literally) on the campus.. ("Are you a nurse?" "No" "Our website is...").  

Another University teaching hospital says on its employment page:
*Walk-ins*, M-F...blah, blah...and when you get there (doing all the correct things, and being quite presentable) they ask you why you are here (and you tell them) and they give you a flier for the website.   Seeing the stunned look, they say "Oh, I'll take a resume if you have it".

That's when you know you've hit purgatory.  

That's why it sounds like "whining" (yes, some posters are whining and believe the internet is everything) but that's what we face and I know the "pull yourself up by the bootstraps" thing...all I saying is, what worked for you, _then_, pre-2009, is a whole new animal now.


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## Mojo (Mar 23, 2011)

tnypow said:


> One huge hospital wouldn't let me set foot (literally) on the campus.. ("Are you a nurse?" "No" "Our website is...").
> 
> Another University teaching hospital says on its employment page:
> *Walk-ins*, M-F...blah, blah...and when you get there (doing all the correct things, and being quite presentable) they ask you why you are here (and you tell them) and they give you a flier for the website.   Seeing the stunned look, they say "Oh, I'll take a resume if you have it".
> ...



Your post reminded me of the April 2011 Reader's Digest Article: Get Hired, Not Fired! 50 Secrets Your HR Person Won't Tell You


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## kevbshields (Mar 23, 2011)

I am going out on a limb here.  The last time that I offered what was evidence-based advice for job seekers on this forum, I was dismissed because my current and recent roles have all been coding.

Hospitals are one of the more traditional work environments for coders.  That does not mean they are the only source of employment, not that they are biggest employers of coders.  The same applies for physician practices.  It's obvious, all of your classmates are also looking for jobs there.  Look at non-traditional jobs, markets and avenues.

Consider dental offices.  Although dental coding is a specialty all its own, those folks want to make money and follow payer rules.  I imagine they'd find a coder's knowledge beneficial.  

Check out DME suppliers and providers.  DME can be some of the most specific coding and billing work available, so the challenge is there for seekers.

Pharmaceutical care companies.  Drugs are big business in the US health care system and reimbursement is key to keeping it that way.  Even though a job of this sort may not be traditional "coding", the billing, pre-auth and related administrative functions align nicely with reimbursement experience (which translates into billing or coding experience).

Health IT/management systems companies are also a great opportunity.  Some of these companies offer varied positions, salaries and products, most of which map back to a coding or billing or patient accounting function in some way.

Home health care; I have a colleauge who "grew up" in home health.  This is another challenging role.  Although many agencies employ a multitude of nurses, they also have billers, coders, HIM specialists and reimbursement professionals to deal with purely administrative functions that keep the doors open and patients being served.

Assisted living and/or skilled nursing facilities.  I have never figured out why this is such an underserved area for coding and HIM staff.  There just simply aren't a lot of visible folks on the long-term care side of the house, although they're most likely desperately needed.

Medical staffing organizations can open doors.  Although typically you are going to see better response to very well experienced and very well credentialed coders, the openings outside coding may not be as highly competitive and can certainly lead to better assignments or job offers.

Rehabilitation services are typically stand-alone ambulatory care where patients come to receive physical therapy, occupational therapy, speech pathology services and related services.  They also utilize administrative staff to carry out a variety of functions.  Remember, the key is probably not to expect to become a coder overnight so much as it is to find opportunities that lead you in that direction.

Physician offices and hospitals frequently use laboratory services.  The specimens are sent out, tests completed and results communicated back to the providers.  These labs have to get paid someway, which indicates they likely have a billing department or service with whom they contract.  Great place to consider that's off the beaten path a bit.

Insurance companies and their partners utilize professional coders in a vast array of positions.  Certified coders are well qualified to work through out that segment of the industry, but I rarely hear coders intentionally seeking those experiences.  Having spent time on the payer side, I believe it is extremely valuable and opens multiple opportunities for growth.

Although personally I believe dialysis is some of the more complicated outpatient coding, there are normally plenty of centers providing this type of care in most moderate-sized cities.  Again, they likely have a billing unit or business office that needs hard workers.

Ambulance services generally have some administrative personell and a certified coder should look desirable to these organizations.

Worker's comp, auto, life, cancer and disability insurance carriers.  Again, they are non-traditional, but have an established need for folks with an ability to decipher patient records, look over bills and make payment recommendations.

Hospice can provide a rewarding career.  Most communities have at least one type of hospice care.   This is an opportunity that many nurses seek out, so why shouldn't coders follow?

Don't forget about blood bank services, American Red Cross and similar entities.  They have behind-the-scene clerical staff that handle billing, scheduling, reimbursement and other business matters.

Health departments are another option.  Generally with health departments, any coding for services would mimic that found in most primary care environments.  However, they may be additional, non-traditional roles that a coder can perform, related to disease tracking, research assisting and many more.

These are a few of the "out of the box" settings that might help some of you to find your way.  I wish you each the best of luck.  While I admit that my career budded before the current job market, I would willingly consider some of these avenues as a replacement for the position I have now.


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## tnypow (Mar 24, 2011)

I just read it (What HR People Won't Tell You About Your Resume)...now that's practical advice a person can use nowdays.

"10. “Résumés don’t need color to stand out. When I see a little color, I smirk. And when I see a ton of color, I cringe. And walking in and dropping off your resume is no longer seen as a good thing. It’s actually a little creepy.” –Rich DeMatteo"

See?


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## ohn0disaster (Mar 24, 2011)

tnypow said:


> I just read it (What HR People Won't Tell You About Your Resume)...now that's practical advice a person can use nowdays.
> 
> "10. “Résumés don't need color to stand out. When I see a little color, I smirk. And when I see a ton of color, I cringe. And walking in and dropping off your resume is no longer seen as a good thing. It's actually a little creepy.” –Rich DeMatteo"
> 
> See?



Don't take this article to heart. Think about the points made but don't take those points too seriously. The article is compiled by taking the PERSONAL OPINION of one HR person on a certain topic. It's not the general rule, just the rule if you're trying to get hired by Rich DeMatteo. In fact, #10 is directly contradicted by #3 which states "3. “If you're trying to get a job at a specific company, often the best thing to do is to avoid HR entirely. Find someone at the company you know, or *go straight to the hiring manager*.” –Shauna Moerke, an HR administrator in Alabama who blogs at hrminion.com"

There are exceptions to every rule, plain and simple. Sure, there are hiring managers out there that do not like having a face to face interaction when someone is dropping off a resume but, as a general rule, most DO like the face to face so they know right away whether they should be wasting their time or not. You want to be the one to make that awesome first impression because you will be the resume that is set on top and looked at first. Otherwise, you will just be another piece of paper in the stack, or another email in the inbox, headed for the "recycle bin". 

When the administrator for my office receives a resume from a certified coder that makes a good first impression on her, she comes to me (since I'm the in-house coder here) right away with the resume so that I can pass it along to the head of my department (MRA) just in case we have another office that needs a coder placed. Otherwise, it usually finds it's way to the shredder bin.


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## ohn0disaster (Mar 24, 2011)

kevbshields said:


> I am going out on a limb here.  The last time that I offered what was evidence-based advice for job seekers on this forum, I was dismissed because my current and recent roles have all been coding.
> 
> Hospitals are one of the more traditional work environments for coders.  That does not mean they are the only source of employment, not that they are biggest employers of coders.  The same applies for physician practices.  It's obvious, all of your classmates are also looking for jobs there.  Look at non-traditional jobs, markets and avenues.
> 
> ...



Kevin, 


GREAT POST! So many people think so straight forward that they forget that there are more than two avenues to take their credentials. I think about it this way, you don't step out of law school and start your own firm. I mean, technically, I suppose it COULD be possible. VERY UNLIKELY, but nothing is impossible. We all have long term goals. Your long term goal may be working as a hospital coder but, with all good things, some dedication and hard work must be put into reaching your goals. That is why a lot of us that are already in the field talk all that "hype" about getting your foot in the door and networking. Chances are, you're not going to start out on top, but that doesn't mean you won't get there. You have to start whereever you can get your foot in the door and work your way up.


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## anapravnik (Mar 25, 2011)

*Great post Kevin!*

Thank you for your contriubtion to this thread Kevin. Sage advice as always.
You are such a great resource and it is my sincere hope that many of the newly certified members will take heed.


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## tnypow (Mar 26, 2011)

*It is glamorized to be something simple you can do*



mdunn said:


> This all goes along with one of my previous posts about the coding market being flooded wtih new inexperience coders due to the education and testing being a little too easy. It is glamorized to be something simple you can do and get a high paying job. Boot camps and 6 week online courses are offered to people who have never seen a code and then they are given a multiple choice exam. The AAPC needs to take a closer look at the requirements for cpc certification. Keep an eye on the education offered and make the test more difficult. If people can go to a week bootcamp with no experience and obtain a certification, gee whiz, talk about difficult to get a job. The market is getting flooded with to many coders and pretty soon those of us with years of experience won't even be able to find jobs.



I agree about the boot camps, but then again, there were people in my classes [a 2yr coding program] who would have found high school biology highly challenging, therefore, I think the CPC tests strike the proper easy/hard/are you paying attention balance.

The "diploma mill" mentality is definitely contributing to a lot of the frustrations/attitudes I mentioned earlier.  Mind you I'm not giving up folks, this is a good place to find out/get out that "Is everybody getting this? or Is it me" thing we all have when doing something new.  That's why we share.


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## SharonSP (Mar 26, 2011)

p.s. Books that I found to be useful – AHIMA's clinical coding workout. 
From my own personal experience most employers require at least a RHIT to get your foot in the door.   What a huge difference between an approved AHIMA school  and the CPC certification.  I find the resources listed on AHIMA 100% more useful than the AAPC.


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## eel82 (Apr 1, 2011)

Unfortunately, as with any industry, it is easier to get a job with experience.  Have you tried applying for data entry or customer service positions to get your foot in the door?  Does the college in which you are attending offer a career placement service that could assist you?


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## PATRICIA14 (Oct 25, 2022)

Its very simple--I am a manager , here is my experience from the other side:     Nobody wants to start anywhere --  majority of people I interview want a big title for lot of money with no experience.  I usually get a list  from candidates of terms, conditions,  and requirements for them in order to work.   Yet what are the candidates offering the businesses?   Hiring a employee is an investment to a company.  From my perspective the attitude is usually "what can the company do for me"  not what can I do to prove I am a worthy investment.

If people want to break into this field,  they need to humble themselves and start out at the bottom and work their way to the position that is desired.     Everyone works hard to earn there credentials however,   they also need to work hard to gain their professional reputation.    It takes a lot of hard work and dedication which I find is lacking in the workplace today.   It took me 25 years!!!!

Start out work:   the front desk at a clinic,    work at an urgent care center,   the file room at a hospital,   Data entry,   mail room at hospital, do scheduling for a physician office,  registration office,     those jobs will not earn you a lot of $$$ but it will help build the resume and get acclimated to the healthcare field.   It opens doors to other avenues.  

Nobody wants to do that  --  they want to get their piece of paper and come into a job at top dollar.     That's not reality


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