# discrimination??????



## TSmith9672 (Jun 24, 2009)

I am anxious to get some opinions on this: I have been at this acute facility for the last few months as a requirement to complete my dergree. I recently became aware of an opening for an I/P coder so being a CPC, I thought I would apply. I previously met and had several brief conversations with the coding manager of the facility so she was aware of my interest if any openings became available. To be honest, she has never showed much interest. When it came around that I was to complete the coding section of the curriculum for my degree, she had me shadow a NON credentialed coder! I have also learned that other than her(coding manager), there is only ONE credentialed coder on staff.

Anyway, as I said I applied for the position and called her to let her now of my interest. She didn't seem interested to say the least but I was determined that she allow me to take the coding test that her facility gives as a pre employment screening. She agreed. Later, I checked my email of which I copied for you review. Please advise me how and/or if I should proceed with this. Should I go over her head and speak directly with the The Director of that dept.? I doubt even if I do that it will make any difference at all. As i said I am a credentialed coder and now eligible to sit for the RHIT, through AHIMA. I will soon have my degree so I am very upset at how this manager could not take any of this into consideration. I don't have any on the job I/P coding but I do have formal I/P coding training. what should i do? 

The email:
_
"****", after reviewing your resume I don’t see where you have had any inpatient coding experience. The position I am looking to fill is for and experienced coder. You are welcome to come and take the test but feel it will be a waste of time without prior inpatient coding experience._

The job posting:*Must have completed college level medical terminology, anatomy, and physiology, and survey of disease- Minimum of one year experience in coding and abstracting preferred-
*

An excerpt of my resume:

*******, CPC
Coder/Health Information Professional

Profile	•	Certified Professional Coder through AAPC with Over 3 years of Outpatient coding experience utilizing ICD-9, CPT-4, HCPCS in accordance with guidelines and knowledgeable in the proper use of modifiers.
•	Knowledgeable of all HIM practices such as ROI and Privacy Practices.
•	Accurately identifies and sequences diagnoses and procedures, verify chart accuracy and completeness. Ensure diagnoses are coded to the highest specificity and that the appropriateness of diagnoses codes are based on the services rendered. 
•	Excellent working knowledge of 3M software, IBM and Mac systems, Microsoft Excel, WordPerfect, Microsoft Word.
•	The ability to abstract data from outpatient records including op reports.
•	Knowledgeable of UHHDS sequencing guidelines.
•	Knowledgeable of reimbursement practices including ensuing collections from third party payers, Medicare and Medicaid
•	Familiar with Electronic medical records and its documentation standards and medical record content.
•	Possess the ability to effectively communicate with physicians regarding proper chart documentation.
•	Strong background in Anatomy and Physiology, medical terminology and pharmacology.
•	Candidate for AAS in Health Information and RHIT certification; June 2009.

	RELEVANT WORK EXPERIENCE
	********	4/2009 - Current
	Health Information Technician-Professional Practice

•	Performs functional duties per need of the department such as filing and retrieving records, assembling records, data abstracting,etc.
•	Assist in coding I/P coding techniques using 3M encoder.


•	Accurately uses electronic equipment within department to facilitate ADT data.
•	Demonstrates knowledge of HIPAA guidelines and appropriately follows departmental confidentiality guidelines.
•	Locate charts in the online Health Patient Folder (HPF) and identify discrepancies such as misplaced, misfiled or duplicate charts.
•	Assisted in chart concurrent and retrospective chart analyses.

	*******	3/2002-7/2004
	Coder

•	Utilized 3M encoder and grouper in addition to coding references to assign ICD-9, HCPCS, CPT codes and appropriate modifiers.      
•	Abstracted medical records to code Hospital Outpatient services.
•	Reviewed medical records for completeness.
•	Maintained compliancy with established third party reimbursement criterion, inconsistencies or discrepancies and discussed with appropriate medical staff.
•	Utilized computer to access, store and retrieve medical records for reimbursement purposes.
•	Performed various clerical duties per needs of the department.                   	
	***********************	
	•	Registered patients ensured that all information in the Hospital Information System was accurate and complete.
•	Obtained all necessary consent signatures for all patients registered.
•	Presented and reviewed generic insurance and treatment consent forms to/with patients.
•	Ensured that all OPD accounts are accurate for billing by reviewing the previous day's registration/billing slips for accurate demographic/insurance information, obtained and/or corrected accounts where needed for both the main and off-site registration areas.	12/1996-1/2002
Licenses/Certifications	American Academy of Professional Coders-CPC

Education	**************- Current Candidate for AAS in Health Information Tech	2008-Current
	**************************.	2002-2004
References Furnished Upon Request

*


----------



## LLovett (Jun 25, 2009)

*Ouch*

I can understand why you are upset. 

I would take a few things into consideration before you file a complaint.

1. Do you really want to work for this person? It sounds to me like she may be they type that doesn't want anyone to know more than she does and is intimidated by your education and experience.

2. How will it affect your record/reputation at this facility? Although it isn't right, employers do dirty things all the time and get away with it. I personally have been made miserable at work because of rubbing the wrong person the wrong way. 

3. If you would get the job due to a complaint, are they going to set you up to fail or give you a fair shot? Based on her email response I get the impression fair has nothing to do with this department.

There are laws in place to protect people and they are great and you should fight if those rights are not honored. I would never advocate just walking away and letting someone get away with anything illegal. I am just saying be prepared to deal with the consequences, whatever they may be.

Good luck

Laura, CPC


----------



## kbarron (Jun 25, 2009)

I also agree. There are many reasons in today's economy for people to do strange things. When you know more that the current coder, they could be afraid to look like they don't know what they are talking about. I have seen too many cutthroats in this business. It is too bad, but it happens and sometimes you just need to move on to a better place. Something better will come along and your knowledge will be greatly appreciated.


----------



## TTcpc (Jun 25, 2009)

Having been in the same situation before and suffered the consequences, you're far better off finding another opportunity.  You've worked too hard for someone who is jealous to try to ruin your future.


----------



## em2177 (Jun 25, 2009)

I would look for a job elsewhere. You seem to have great knowledge and experience which this employer is not even willing to look over. I wouldnt bother, with your background I am sure you could find a position. I would definately say something to the head of the Dept but I wouldnt be willing to work there if I were not even being considered for the position. Some people tend to get intimidated from others and when they are Supervisors or Managers of a company it gives them the power to say what goes. Good luck  and im sure you will find a great position.


----------



## valshriver (Jun 25, 2009)

*I understand.*

I think she is intimidated by you. You may more experience than she does.
I have had the same problem my self. I am over qualified for a lot of the jobs out there right now and have found even getting an entry level job to be difficult. How are you suppose to get experience if know one will allow you
To work.............
Valerie Shriver CPC


----------



## EMS7775 (Jun 25, 2009)

*discrimination*

I understand exactly how you feel.  I was in a similiar situation before. As an intern, I was denied the opportunity to even complete hours for my coding program.  So, I went to the billing department and got experience there at the same time I was introduced to the surgery coding specialist. I then became her intern and got experience at the same time I was hired in the billing department. After three years of trying to get a position in the coding department, I completed my AAS with a concentration in medical billing and coding and received my CPC credentials.  I waited patient for another opportunity. It was at the right time the coding specialist was promoted to a higher HIM postion and I applied for her position and now I am the coding specialist of surgery which is a higher position than what I was trying to get.  I do not know what the coding managers problem was some say she was intimitated as well.  You're opportunity will come just have faith in yourself.


----------



## SherryMoss (Jun 25, 2009)

Hmmm....

This may not be the most popular response, but...

(my experience relates strictly to non-surgical physician offices - not hospital or surgical settings)

I've been in the medical billing business for 20 years.  I have done alot of consulting on billing/coding/reimbursement.  I have assisted physician offices with hiring and training and supervision of billing personnel.  I run a successful billing service.  None of my employees are certified.  I am sitting for my CPC in August.   (a side note:  my billing service doesn't code CPT)

Experience does count and I have had horror stories when I hired inexperienced CPC's.  Given the choice, I would take a non-CPC with 10 years over a CPC with 1 year.

I have interviewed so many CPCs and the majority have an attitude of entitlement, it seems.  No experience, just the attitude.

For those that are new in the business, please understand that the CPC alone may not be enough for many employers.  Also, there are, unfortunately, alot of CPC's that have come before you with lack of experience that have given the CPC credentialling a "not so favorable" memory in some organization's minds.

However, in closing, when I have a really sticky situation, I always refer to associates that are CPCs - experienced CPC's  - for guidance.  The CPC after your name DOES mean something, but the experience means more!


----------



## 007CPC (Jun 26, 2009)

SherryMoss said:


> Hmmm....
> 
> This may not be the most popular response, but...
> 
> ...




Pointing out the obvious ..... tends not to take to much experience in coding............I've seen what billing businesses call coding ----SLACKERS.....LOL

JoeytheShark, CPC, CCA


----------



## fullyalive05 (Jun 26, 2009)

Boy do i know how you feel.  I am going through the same kind of situation RIGHT now.  My team leader is the only CPC and I took a course and passed my exam last year and she is so threatened by me. I don't know if it is because I am half her age and have accomplished so much while working at the same office or what....I mean her no harm and wouldn't want her position anyways. It has gotten so bad that I am considering finding another job whether it is coding or not...which is very sad when you take the time to work hard at something and then ONE person doesn't want you to do good. Just way your options and you choose what you think is best.  In the end, you will find a way to get through it.  I'm rooting for you!


----------



## TSmith9672 (Jun 28, 2009)

*Your support is appreciated!*

Thanks Everybody I appreciate your support. I also agree that she was intimidated by me also and I have a better job opportunity in line. I look forward to my interview tommorow, I will keep you posted. It is comforting to know that I have all of your support.


----------



## LTibbetts (Jun 29, 2009)

I wish you a lot of luck!! But also, keep in mind that a lot of coders that you meet got their experience the hard way. Long years of coding without credentials. When I was starting to learn to code, there were no RHIT college courses and coding was not something you could study in school. Not to discount your college training...hooray for you. I know how hard it is in college and I can definitely appreciate your hard work! But I just thought that before you judge anyone and misunderstand jealousy for simply a lack of better choices to choose from years ago, may be the reason some people may be threatened by you is that they worked for years in this business and believe that they have worked just as hard as you to get where they are and I agree with the person that said that experience counts for a LOT. So again, good luck with your interview!! I really believe that everything happens for a reason. The way that the supervisor treated you was definitely unfair but maybe you were not meant to work there for someone who would only stunt your growth and learning, but that you were meant to get a better job where you will be treated accordingly. Good luck!!


----------



## Sonjagirl (Jul 9, 2009)

Your resume looks good; it speaks for itself.  I'm not certified nor do I have experience as a coder or biller, but I've worked in medical centers.

It seems to me that "the handwriting is on the wall."  She probably doesn't want you there, so I would move on.  I'm sure you're thinking about the bad economy, so you really need the job.  However, she may make your life miserable once you're hired; and eventually, you may resign without any unemployment benefits.  Ask yourself: "Would I want to work with her if she doesn't want me there?"  My answer would be "no."  Then I would follow my gut feeling and move on.  

Also, look at the long term point of view.  Think about your future in the coding business.  Experience as an inpatient coder is really necessary.  From what I've learned with trying to dissect these operating reports is that inpatient coding in the real world is not an easy job, and my instructor told us that we will be interrogated as to why we do things this way or that.  Nevertheless, we have to stand our ground and be "on top of our game."  It is a lot harder than what we've learned in school, and there are a lot of things that can only be learned as a result from experience.  It's a new challenge every day, and I'm sure you have a "passion" for coding--which is really needed.  Maybe this individual feels that the chemistry isn't there between you and the position.  

I know this is disheartening; it can be frustrating, and I wished someone had told me all of this before I started my coding classes--but all I can do now is keep trying.  I love coding; I can't give up, because I've come too far now.

Keep in mind you're not the only one in this situation.  Everyone is going through something, especially during this recession.


----------



## donsqueen (Jul 10, 2009)

Please let us know how your job interview went! As I'm sure you know from your classes and your experience, inpatient and outpatient coding is like the difference between a lion and a house cat. While your experience looks awesome, she may need someone who she doesn't have to "train" in the differences between the 2 worlds. You and I both know that with your classes, you're already trained in those difference, but maybe she doesn't, or doesn't want to admit it. 

I too have been in a situation where I knew more than my boss. I tried really hard not to rub it in her face, but it was difficult when I was passed over for promotion because the clinic manager valued my skills too much in the position I was in. That I was right, did eventually bear itself out in that my boss was let go, but I had already left the company and now have a wonderful job with wonderful benefits. Don't get discouraged, your shining star position is out there waiting to be found.


----------



## ahouse (Jul 16, 2009)

*How about the other side of the fence?*

Experience in a physician office does not at all equal experience coding in a facility setting, regardless of the length of time.  

Facilities code using DRG's, Rev Codes, then CPT and HCPCS.  Depending one the carrier, they may even bill with ICD-9 procedural codes.  For most services, a CPT or HCPCS isn't even required!  To code for a facility, unless your schooling went into great detail regarding the differences, your physician coding experience wouldn't do you much good.  

So, before you get too terribly upset, maybe take the time to listen to her statement that she's looking for someone who can, without much training, step in and take over the job.  

Sorry if that sounds harsh, but the reality is, employers are trying to cut costs and new employee training is one of them!


----------



## 007CPC (Jul 16, 2009)

alboyd said:


> Experience in a physician office does not at all equal experience coding in a facility setting, regardless of the length of time.
> 
> Facilities code using DRG's, Rev Codes, then CPT and HCPCS.  Depending one the carrier, they may even bill with ICD-9 procedural codes.  For most services, a CPT or HCPCS isn't even required!  To code for a facility, unless your schooling went into great detail regarding the differences, your physician coding experience wouldn't do you much good.
> 
> ...



Training; DRG's, Rev Codes, CPT, HCPCS codes.........! If someone is competant enough to get CPC and/or certs through the other organization.....!Wouldn't you agree it would be cheaper to hire someone new who is competant in the coding language who is asking for a small sallery versus the gold digger who want a hundred grand a year because they are fluent in one type of coding: facility....! You don't have to spend weeks training a coder new to a different methodology which can be learned in the matter of hours....!the chicken before the egg is very inaccurate to apply in coding scenario.....! I have heard others over forums even disclose it isn't what you know but who you know.....! and with that said..... not every coder is a gold digger!


----------



## 007CPC (Jul 16, 2009)

alboyd said:


> Experience in a physician office does not at all equal experience coding in a facility setting, regardless of the length of time.
> 
> Facilities code using DRG's, Rev Codes, then CPT and HCPCS.  Depending one the carrier, they may even bill with ICD-9 procedural codes.  For most services, a CPT or HCPCS isn't even required!  To code for a facility, unless your schooling went into great detail regarding the differences, your physician coding experience wouldn't do you much good.
> 
> ...




One more!


I hear citizens complaining that they are only making $20,000 when a year ago they were making $50,000; cry me a river....recession..... I laugh at recessions. And, the medical doctor is what makes your jobs lucrative in coding facility or professional, which is why CPC people are more valuable to the operation in times of no recession....!


----------

