# A Career Change



## Sonjagirl (Jun 13, 2009)

It seems to me that some are having a hard time getting a job as a coder, and are seriously thinking about making a *career change*.  This applies to some who have and have not passed the CPC exam (after several attempts), and are still unemployed.  It can be extremely frustrating.  It can be quite scary during these tough economic times.  Everyone is going through something.  I'm willing to keep trying, and I encourage everyone to do something on the side to bring money in.   After all, that's what it bottles down to.  There's so much to coding; it can seem like a challenge.  I didn't expect things to be this way.


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## 007CPC (Jun 13, 2009)

Sonjagirl said:


> It seems to me that some are having a hard time getting a job as a coder, and are seriously thinking about making a *career change*.  This applies to some who have and have not passed the CPC exam (after several attempts), and are still unemployed.  It can be extremely frustrating.  It can be quite scary during these tough economic times.  Everyone is going through something.  I'm willing to keep trying, and I encourage everyone to do something on the side to bring money in.   After all, that's what it bottles down to.  There's so much to coding; it can seem like a challenge.  I didn't expect things to be this way.



Me either Sonjagirl!  I wouldn't of ever have entered this industry if conscious of hungry money managers hovering over coders spines.


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## whoopeedew (Jun 13, 2009)

I would be considering a career change if I did not love coding/billing so much!  I passed my exam 2 weeks ago and am an apprentice, and I was so proud!  But now everyone wants experience, and so I apply for the entry level jobs to get my foot in the door and then I am told I am over-qualified?!  A little confusing to say the least.  I have applied for literally over 50 jobs in the last month and I have had 2 interviews.  One job they wanted somebody who spoke spanish and the other said I was overqualified for the billing specialist position.  I am not sure how that is when I just finished school to do that specific job!  Very frustrating!


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## rthames052006 (Jun 13, 2009)

whoopeedew said:


> I would be considering a career change if I did not love coding/billing so much!  I passed my exam 2 weeks ago and am an apprentice, and I was so proud!  But now everyone wants experience, and so I apply for the entry level jobs to get my foot in the door and then I am told I am over-qualified?!  A little confusing to say the least.  I have applied for literally over 50 jobs in the last month and I have had 2 interviews.  One job they wanted somebody who spoke spanish and the other said I was overqualified for the billing specialist position.  I am not sure how that is when I just finished school to do that specific job!  Very frustrating!



Sorry to  hear that, I assume they said you were overqualifed because they probably do not want to pay you what you are worth... Just my opinion.  I started on the Medical Billing side and have been on this side for over 15 years. 

There is another thread on this site that makes the comment that billing should have a coder within the dept.  I just happen to be a Billing Supervisor and I do use my "coding skills" on a daily basis, I don't do much charge entry but I do review charge entry on a daily basis making sure we submit clean claims.  

Maybe when you go for another interview and they tell you "your overqualified" you could mention some things that you could be very helpful with in the billing cycle.

I wish you luck.


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## whoopeedew (Jun 13, 2009)

rthames052006:


That makes so much sense!  When the interviewer found out I was taking my CPC in 2 days something seemed to change in the interview.  I never thought about it until you mentioned it, I feel a little better now  Even though I am frustrated, I just think it was not meant to be, and something better is waiting for me down the line!  

Thank you for the great advice!  I just have to acquire some patience and know it will come.


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## rthames052006 (Jun 13, 2009)

whoopeedew said:


> rthames052006:
> 
> 
> That makes so much sense!  When the interviewer found out I was taking my CPC in 2 days something seemed to change in the interview.  I never thought about it until you mentioned it, I feel a little better now  Even though I am frustrated, I just think it was not meant to be, and something better is waiting for me down the line!
> ...



Your very welcome! Someone once told me that "every disappointment is for good", it may not seem that way now but hopefully in the near future you can look back and "laugh"....

I know I have done it!


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## Sonjagirl (Jun 15, 2009)

JoeytheShark said:


> Me either Sonjagirl!  I wouldn't of ever have entered this industry if conscious of hungry money managers hovering over coders spines.



I thought that it would be easy to get into once I finished my 2-1/2 years of medical insurance billing courses.  Now I'm at the point where I'm hitting all of these road blocks--as if the odds are against me as far as getting a job.  For example, *the certification exam *has gotten tougher since 2008, and on top of that, *coding operating reports *seems to be a struggle since we weren't taught extreme coding in the schools I went to.  I'm wondering if I chose the right career, and experience coders have told me what it is like in the real world of coding.  You have to be on "top of your game," because you will always be questioned or interrogated.  Okay . . . I guess I have to take one day at a time if I ever get hired.

I think there should be a public school which teaches long term courses just for these two "road blocks."  It makes me wonder how long did it take for some to dissect these operating reports.  I have two books with answers that I'm studying, but when I check my answers against the answer keys, I'm not close to getting all of the codes right!  I guess I have to read the guidelines for each diagnosis and procedure before I come up with these codes.  I was told that this is the real world of coding.  I'm sure CPCs don't have time to look up all these guidelines before coding each diagnosis or procedures--especially if they have a 75 reports that have to be completed in one hour.

Does anyone know of a public school in the Los Angeles area that consistently teaches how to dissect operating reports?  If not, what about a private school?  I know these private schools want you to take all of their classes within their curriculum, but I've done that in the schools that I went to.  I just want to focus on coding.

Do employers expect you to dissect an operating report within 2 minutes--let alone 60 within an hour with 95 percent accuracy?  *That's overwhelming for a novice*.  

I really like coding, but it seems like I can't win.  Once again, the odds are against me--plus I need three years' experience after getting certified.  It's like we're being deliberately held back.  It looks like to me that there will always be a shortage of coders.

I'm wondering what it will be like when ICD-10 is incorporated.  Will things be easier for us?  Should I study for it?  I don't know.


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## Anna Weaver (Jun 15, 2009)

*career change*



Sonjagirl said:


> I thought that it would be easy to get into once I finished my 2-1/2 years of medical insurance billing courses.  Now I'm at the point where I'm hitting all of these road blocks--as if the odds are against me as far as getting a job.  For example, *the certification exam *has gotten tougher since 2008, and on top of that, *coding operating reports *seems to be a struggle since we weren't taught extreme coding in the schools I went to.  I'm wondering if I chose the right career, and experience coders have told me what it is like in the real world of coding.  You have to be on "top of your game," because you will always be questioned or interrogated.  Okay . . . I guess I have to take one day at a time if I ever get hired.
> 
> I think there should be a public school which teaches long term courses just for these two "road blocks."  It makes me wonder how long did it take for some to dissect these operating reports.  I have two books with answers that I'm studying, but when I check my answers against the answer keys, I'm not close to getting all of the codes right!  I guess I have to read the guidelines for each diagnosis and procedure before I come up with these codes.  I was told that this is the real world of coding.  I'm sure CPCs don't have time to look up all these guidelines before coding each diagnosis or procedures--especially if they have a 75 reports that have to be completed in one hour.
> 
> ...



Sorry to hear you are having such a hard time. I can tell you from experience that it can be overwhelming at times, but it can be done. I changed careers when I was close to 50. I had worked in the laboratory for over 18 years and was very comfortable there. I was the "go to" person if there was  a question on a procedure, computer issues etc. I was in charge of the office and had several employees under me that I was responsible for training etc. Then, I started getting into the coding. I took a couple classes, then I took the course (with no intention of changing jobs), then I decided I wanted to do this full time. I completed my schooling and started applying for jobs. I KNOW I got very lucky in that where I work now was okay with hiring an uncertified person. I did get my certification within months of hiring (I was scheduled for the test). I didn't know anyone who was certified outside of my fellow employees (not CPC but AHIMA), we only had 2 in my class taking advanced coding. When I hired, there wasn't a lot of recognition yet for coders and it wasn't that very long ago. They were just starting to hire certified. Then I worked as a facility coder doing outpatient procedures, labs and such. The procedures they started me with were ASC procedures which are generally (not always) not as technically advanced as a lot of the inpatient procedures. It gets easier after awhile to dissect the reports and I can tell you that everyone messes up sometimes. We are human, therefore we make human mistakes. The problem is not really making the mistakes, but knowing that they need to be corrected. 
You will make a great coder, I can tell because you are already asking questions. LOL. Asking questions will get you answers and that will make you a better coder in the long run. If you check out the forum, you will find we don't know everything either. We all (even those who have been here for awhile) are learning every day. That's the life of a coder in the real world, learning to ask questions and research for answers. You have to want to learn and be willing to make the changes necessary. We are not sedentary in our learning capacities. 
Yes, we do have people standing over our shoulders, but everyone does. The OIG, CMS, just to name 2 (not even going with the insurance companies), and there are several out there, that are always watching and waiting.  Most everyplace you work will require you to be productive, and they will have their own standards they want you to go by. Unfortunately, I think some of them set those standards by what an experienced coder can do instead of what a normal or novice coder can do. 
Anyway, by saying all this, I just want to encourage you to continue to follow whatever path you feel is appropriate for you, it will make you a better employee if you are where you want to be, not where you feel someone else wants you to be. 
Best of luck!
Anna


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## mmorningstarcpc (Jun 15, 2009)

Anna and Roxanne make some very good points.  

Fortunately (and I know how fortunate I am) I never had to struggle finding a job in coding, as I say "I grew up in it."  I have been in medical office management, billing, coding and anything related for about 25+ years.  It is quite a challenging field and you will never know anywhere near everything, lol!  I work as a consultant and some days its very frustrating.  I have to create a coding summary for a company making a "widget."  Something that has never been used before, something the device company came up with and now they want a coding solution (i.e. reimbursed!).  First of all, I dont have notes (which is really hard sometimes as this is how we are programmed), second the device company wants reimbursement (dont we all!) and third, just because they have a new device or product or procedure, doesnt mean there is reimbursement for it.  

My point I guess is it never gets easier per se.  There will always always be challenges.  DO NOT give up.  You will find something.  Feel free to email me, or probably any one of us here, if you think we can offer any other advice, or if you just want to vent.  We all have our struggles and some days you just want someone to listen who understands.


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## 007CPC (Jun 15, 2009)

Disclosed too much !!!


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## Sonjagirl (Jun 15, 2009)

Anna Weaver said:


> Sorry to hear you are having such a hard time. I can tell you from experience that it can be overwhelming at times, but it can be done. I changed careers when I was close to 50. I had worked in the laboratory for over 18 years and was very comfortable there. I was the "go to" person if there was  a question on a procedure, computer issues etc. I was in charge of the office and had several employees under me that I was responsible for training etc. Then, I started getting into the coding. I took a couple classes, then I took the course (with no intention of changing jobs), then I decided I wanted to do this full time. I completed my schooling and started applying for jobs. I KNOW I got very lucky in that where I work now was okay with hiring an uncertified person. I did get my certification within months of hiring (I was scheduled for the test). I didn't know anyone who was certified outside of my fellow employees (not CPC but AHIMA), we only had 2 in my class taking advanced coding. When I hired, there wasn't a lot of recognition yet for coders and it wasn't that very long ago. They were just starting to hire certified. Then I worked as a facility coder doing outpatient procedures, labs and such. The procedures they started me with were ASC procedures which are generally (not always) not as technically advanced as a lot of the inpatient procedures. It gets easier after awhile to dissect the reports and I can tell you that everyone messes up sometimes. We are human, therefore we make human mistakes. The problem is not really making the mistakes, but knowing that they need to be corrected.
> You will make a great coder, I can tell because you are already asking questions. LOL. Asking questions will get you answers and that will make you a better coder in the long run. If you check out the forum, you will find we don't know everything either. We all (even those who have been here for awhile) are learning every day. That's the life of a coder in the real world, learning to ask questions and research for answers. You have to want to learn and be willing to make the changes necessary. We are not sedentary in our learning capacities.
> Yes, we do have people standing over our shoulders, but everyone does. The OIG, CMS, just to name 2 (not even going with the insurance companies), and there are several out there, that are always watching and waiting.  Most everyplace you work will require you to be productive, and they will have their own standards they want you to go by. Unfortunately, I think some of them set those standards by what an experienced coder can do instead of what a normal or novice coder can do.
> Anyway, by saying all this, I just want to encourage you to continue to follow whatever path you feel is appropriate for you, it will make you a better employee if you are where you want to be, not where you feel someone else wants you to be.
> ...



Back in the mid 80s, I first heard about coding through a nursing friend.  She decided that she no longer wanted to be a nurse, so she took four medical insurance billing courses at a community college for a total of four months (not through the extension program).  She worked as a temporary employee and was hired by a group of doctors in Los Angeles. 

It sounded interesting to me, but I was working overtime consistently for seven years, so naturally I couldn't go to school.  Plus, coding was just a new field--at least that's what my friend told me.  She's had success back then, but she wasn't certified because it wasn't required.  She even started her own business about five years later, and made $75,000 back in 1991.

So I finally followed her footsteps by taking a six-month course at another community college.  After completion, I found out that I needed certification and experience.  Besides, I felt that there had to be more than the basics regarding coding, so that's why I decided to reinforce my learning by taking the same courses at another school.  These courses were a semester long each, so it took me two years to complete four classes.  I enjoyed it immensely, and I worked hard in those classes--because there was a lot of work, but it was really worth it.  

I studied diligently for the CPC exam for four months, even though we were told repeatedly 1-1/2 years in advance by a temp employer consultant (and she was extremely frank that my heart just sanked; her words and body language tore me to pieces), a classmate, and two teachers that it has changed dramatically.

So during the past five years, my financial situation has changed dramatically as well as everyone else's during these tough economic times--and it's going to be a long climb uphill--but I've come this far, and I believe there is a light at the end of the tunnel.  In the meantime, I will continue to study for the exam which I plan to retake in September or October.

Thanks for your encouraging words.  This as well as other threads are so comforting.  Thank you all, and I feel for each and every one of you.


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## Betsyd (Jun 15, 2009)

I too had a hard time finding my job.  I had a wonderful one in FL, and due to the Economy we had to move back home to NY.  I did find a job though.  And, let me give you this little piece of advice....I could not find a "coding" job, so I took my skills and my certification and I tweaked my resume and I am now the Documentation and Reimbursement Coordinator for the Medical Group here.  I used to code and bill the Physicians E/M Codes for the Hospital I worked for in FL, and the position I am in now has me working side by side with all of the providers making sure they are accurately coding E/M Codes.  So look in other areas...I found this position under "financial analyst"  And when they saw my coding certification, they wanted me to start right away.  I wish you all luck!!!


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## Sonjagirl (Jun 15, 2009)

Betsyd said:


> I too had a hard time finding my job.  I had a wonderful one in FL, and due to the Economy we had to move back home to NY.  I did find a job though.  And, let me give you this little piece of advice....I could not find a "coding" job, so I took my skills and my certification and I tweaked my resume and I am now the Documentation and Reimbursement Coordinator for the Medical Group here.  I used to code and bill the Physicians E/M Codes for the Hospital I worked for in FL, and the position I am in now has me working side by side with all of the providers making sure they are accurately coding E/M Codes.  So look in other areas...I found this position under "financial analyst"  And when they saw my coding certification, they wanted me to start right away.  I wish you all luck!!!



Yes, it helps to look in other areas.   New York, from my understanding, is the financial capital of the United States.   I'm quite surprise you didn't find a job as a coder, but I guess times have changed all over the world.   Did you get your training as a coder in New York.  If so, what is the name of the school, or did you learn on the job?  

I wish you much happiness in your current position.  Thanks for responding.


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## Sonjagirl (Jun 15, 2009)

JoeytheShark said:


> Sonjagirl,
> 
> You have good grammar skills! I'm sure you will find an opportunity somewere in billing and/or coding. Allot of times, in billing, the position is solely dependent on how confident you sound.
> 
> ...



I did attend two *public schools *right across the street from each other. These schools were really enlightening.  

The second school, West Valley Occupational Center, should have been my first choice; but I wasn't ready to adhere to their early schedule, since I was commuting in bumper-to-bumper traffic from downtown Los Angeles to Woodland Hills.  There was no way I could have arrived on time.  

Eight months later, I decided to repeat the classes that I passed at Los Angeles Pierce College by registering with West Valley Occupational Center.  I explained to the instructor about the rush-hour traffic and that I would be about 15 minutes late for each session, but I didn't want her to think that I wasn't coming or interested in the class.  I didn't want her to drop me automatically.  She told me that she had to commute to and from Inglewood (by going over the hill on the 405 freeway) to get to and from school, so she understood perfectly.  Was I happy to hear that.  Her commute was worse than mine!

Anyway, I spent *two years *there completing four classes.  It was definitely worth it, and the tuition was just $55 - $60 per class for each semester which included on-campus parking, school identification card, etc.!  We really got a lot for our money!  The training there was equivalent to a private school ($6,500 - $10,000 for their one year curriculum); at least that's what I was told!  Anyway, those four classes--over a period of two years--came to a total of $220.00 without books!

Yes, Los Angeles definitely has some good schools, but I prefer the public ones even if their courses are longer.  I was told by a CPC instructor within AAPC that I won't find a public school that dissects operating reports within the city.  I don't know if that's true . . . maybe.

I've lived here all of my life, and I guess I took everything for granted.  To me I thought this was just normal until I started traveling repeatedly to other cities within the United States and abroad.   Thousands are moving here every year for the jobs, schools, entertainment, weather, palm trees, beaches, mountains, etc.  It has a lot to offer; and I have to admit, "the pros outweigh the cons."  

I appreciate your experience.  You've been very encouraging to me.  Thanks!


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## 007CPC (Jun 15, 2009)

Sonjagirl said:


> I did attend two *public schools *right across the street from each other. These schools were really enlightening.
> 
> The second school, West Valley Occupational Center, should have been my first choice; but I wasn't ready to adhere to their early schedule, since I was commuting in bumper-to-bumper traffic from downtown Los Angeles to Woodland Hills.  There was no way I could have arrived on time.
> 
> ...




Oops, you're not in the same situation as me.


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## Sonjagirl (Jun 15, 2009)

JoeytheShark said:


> Opps, you're not in the same situation as me.



We're all going through something, though.

By the time I decided to go into medical insurance billing in 2004, all the classes were no longer part of the regular curriculum at the community colleges.  They were included in the extension program, so it cost more.

At the first school, I paid $400 for the four medical insurance billing sessions (extension courses) at Los Angeles Pierce College and about $200 for the three medical terminology sessions (extension program) at Los Angeles City College.  Los Angeles Pierce College didn't have the medical terminology course.  I paid a total of $600 for these basic courses for six months.  

Back then I had no intentions of going to another school eight months later such as West Valley Occupational Center, because my nursing friend didn't; and she worked as a temp and was hired by a group of doctors.  She didn't need certification back then (1986).  Now things have changed, but I plan to "keep my chin up."

Once again, thanks for your comments.


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## 007CPC (Jun 15, 2009)

Sonjagirl said:


> We're all going through something, though.
> 
> By the time I decided to go into medical insurance billing in 2004, all the classes were no longer part of the regular curriculum at the community colleges.  They were included in the extension program, so it cost more.
> 
> ...



If you really mean it, your welcome


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## Betsyd (Jun 19, 2009)

Sonjagirl said:


> Yes, it helps to look in other areas.   New York, from my understanding, is the financial capital of the United States.   I'm quite surprise you didn't find a job as a coder, but I guess times have changed all over the world.   Did you get your training as a coder in New York.  If so, what is the name of the school, or did you learn on the job?
> 
> I wish you much happiness in your current position.  Thanks for responding.



I received my education in FL actually.  At Concorde Career Institute.  But, the man that hired me did not look at my resume and he put me into a Revenue Analyst position.  That was a lucky day for me because I am now a certified coder with the Experience of a Financial Analyst.  There are many Coding jobs here, but I am not in NYC, I am in Western NY, and they did not know me in the "circles" here, but I am planning on changing that!


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## Sonjagirl (Jun 19, 2009)

Betsyd said:


> I received my education in FL actually.  At Concorde Career Institute.  But, the man that hired me did not look at my resume and he put me into a Revenue Analyst position.  That was a lucky day for me because I am now a certified coder with the Experience of a Financial Analyst.  There are many Coding jobs here, but I am not in NYC, I am in Western NY, and they did not know me in the "circles" here, but I am planning on changing that!



Thanks for responding!


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