# ROS documentation



## todd5400 (Feb 27, 2008)

I have a physician who wants to dictate "10 point review of systems were obtained; negative other than above" in his hospital dictation.  What do you think?  Is this sufficient?

Thanks


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## codegirl0422 (Feb 27, 2008)

todd5400 said:


> I have a physician who wants to dictate "10 point review of systems were obtained; negative other than above" in his hospital dictation.  What do you think?  Is this sufficient?
> 
> Thanks



My concern would be what other systems than above were obtained. Which are negative? I am not positive, but I don't think that would be suficient. If the doctor reviews all the systems, he might be able to state "all other systems reviewed and are negative, except for ones listed above".  If you look under the 97 guidelines, it tells you
"DG: at least ten organ systems must be reviewed. Those systems with positive or pertinent negative responses must be INDIVIDUALLY DOCUMENATED. FOR THE REMAINING SYSTEMS, A NOTATION INDICATING ALL OTHER SYSTEMS ARE NEGATIVE IS PERMISSIBLE. In the absence of such a notation, at least ten systems must be individually documented."

Hope this helps


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## member7 (Feb 27, 2008)

I agree.  The physician is not being clear and concise with his/her documentation.  They should specifically document a response for each system or record "all systems negative".


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## Love Coding! (Mar 28, 2008)

*Ros*



codegirl0422 said:


> My concern would be what other systems than above were obtained. Which are negative? I am not positive, but I don't think that would be suficient. If the doctor reviews all the systems, he might be able to state "all other systems reviewed and are negative, except for ones listed above".  If you look under the 97 guidelines, it tells you
> "DG: at least ten organ systems must be reviewed. Those systems with positive or pertinent negative responses must be INDIVIDUALLY DOCUMENATED. FOR THE REMAINING SYSTEMS, A NOTATION INDICATING ALL OTHER SYSTEMS ARE NEGATIVE IS PERMISSIBLE. In the absence of such a notation, at least ten systems must be individually documented."
> 
> Hope this helps



What if the physician notes diabetes, hypertension all other systems are negative and noted in the chart? Can we count this as 10 systems?

Thank you!


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## member7 (Mar 28, 2008)

My take on it is that the diabetes and hypertension could be part of the PFSH or part of the presenting problem.  That would leave all other negative which would count as complete system review or ten systems.


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## codegirl0422 (Mar 29, 2008)

I agree with member7.


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## jennifer.cooper (Mar 30, 2008)

Well to answer your question.  Your doctor can review all system and document whatever he wants by making his dictation 5 pgs  long.  The key is that it was not medical necessity.  Therefore, no insurance company is going to pay for services that are not medical necessity.


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## bigredcag (Apr 22, 2008)

our docs do this too but they are required to state all others negitve this clears up the confusion
so this is how they word it 
12 point ROS reviewed and are negatve except what is stated in the HPI. 
or 12 point ROS reviewed and negative unless stated otherwise in HPI
we just went through a medicare audit and nothing was noted wrong with the statement.


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## efrohna (Apr 22, 2008)

My caution to the physician would be to refrain from using that statement for _every_ patient.  "Remaining review of systems negative" or "all other ROS negative" are being scrutinized more these days.  

I would not doubt it if that phrase is going to restricted for a complete 10 ROS in the future.  It is similar to the wording "noncontributory" as being a no-no for PFSHx.  I also agree with the coder who stated "medical necessity."  Why would you need a complete ROS for a low level service?  Again, using that phrase all the time would be a red flag.  

Just my 2 cents.
E. Frohna


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## rthames052006 (Apr 22, 2008)

efrohna said:


> My caution to the physician would be to refrain from using that statement for _every_ patient.  "Remaining review of systems negative" or "all other ROS negative" are being scrutinized more these days.
> 
> I would not doubt it if that phrase is going to restricted for a complete 10 ROS in the future.  It is similar to the wording "noncontributory" as being a no-no for PFSHx.  I also agree with the coder who stated "medical necessity."  Why would you need a complete ROS for a low level service?  Again, using that phrase all the time would be a red flag.
> 
> ...




I agree with you 100%, I think some physicians and maybe some coders get medical necessity and mdm mixed up or confused.  I am always on the alert for Medical necessity when I am reviewing charts. 

Today I had a chart on a pt who has no underlying diseases and came in with sore throat and possible bronchitis that was billed as a 99214 that for me in this case made me put medical necessity into play...

Just wanted to share


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## kboggs (Aug 28, 2008)

*Borrowing from the HPI*

good morning coders, how many review of systems can you borrow from the HPI? Where can i find documentation on this coding guideline? thank you


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## dmaec (Aug 28, 2008)

however many you DIDN'T use in the HPI - (can't double dip)
_{that's my opinion on the posted matter}_


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