# ICD-9 Apprentice to ICD-10?



## JenIrelandMD (Dec 17, 2013)

If I am currently classified as an Apprentice (CPC-A) under AAPC credentialing guidelines, will the Apprentice distinction be removed if I pass the ICD-10 proficiency exam?  It seems like we will all be "Apprentices" again once the ICD-10 guidelines and codes are implemented.  (I'm curious to see if this is a loophole that will allow me to get rid of that dreaded "A" at the end of my credential.)


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## AlaskanCoder (Dec 17, 2013)

No, ICD-10 proficiency is not a requirement of the credentialing at this time and does not designate one as an apprentice or non-apprentice.  If you are an MD, it seems that it should be a pretty simple matter to remove the apprentice status, if you have been in practice for 2 years or more.  Here is the information from the certification page: 

"To remove your apprentice designation 
via on-the-job experience, you must obtain and submit two letters of recommendation verifying at least two years of on-the-job experience (externships accepted) using the CPT®, ICD-9-CM, or HCPCS Level II code sets. One letter must be on letterhead from your employer*, the other may be from a co-worker. Both letters are required to be signed and will need to outline your coding experience and amount of time in that capacity. Download our Apprentice Removal Template for easier submission. Letterhead and signatures are still required when using this template. 
OR 
Submit proof showing completion of at least 80 contact hours of coding education AND one letter, on letterhead, signed from your employer verifying one year of on-the-job experience (externships accepted) using the CPT, ICD-9-CM, or HCPCS Level II code sets. 
Send proof of education in the form of a letter from an instructor on school letterhead stating the 80 contact hour course has been completed, a certificate/diploma stating at least 80 contact hours, or a school transcript. 
Once ALL apprentice removal requirements have been met, you may submit them via fax, mail, or scanned email. Please allow 2-4 weeks for processing.
*Employers can only verify time spent coding with their organization."

Have you tried contacting the office and asking if you M.D. doesn't prove that you have been working in a coding environment?

Just a thought. 
Karen Hill, CPC, CPB, CPMA


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## JenIrelandMD (Jan 22, 2014)

*I'm not an MD...*

Funny how many people assume I am a doctor because of my log in name.  I am not an M.D.; I am a Maryland resident.     (Sorry for the confusion!)

To clarify my predicament...I took trade school classes and passed my certification exam for ICD-9 in February 2012.  I have not been able to find work as a CPC-A, so I have zero experience in the field, only knowledge attained from classes.  I am trying to hold on to my credentials, but I fear they may be just about obsolete, with ICD-10 implementation rapidly approaching.

I really hoped that if I could pass the ICD-10 proficiency exam that the "Apprentice" designation would just go away, but I still don't know if that is true or not.  (I understand the regular process for removing the "A" from my credentials, I just don't have the experience required to do so.)  

I was hoping to somehow get into the field during this transition time, taking advantage of the fact that _no one_ is going to have years and years of experience with ICD-10.  Doesn't this level the playing field a little bit more in favor of us newbies?

I fear my last opportunity might be to go back to school again, this time for ICD-10, but I am hesitant to do so, not just because of the time and expense involved, but because I anticipate having the same problem breaking into the job market when I am finished.

I am just about ready to give up on this industry that is extremely unwelcoming to new recruits.  It's too bad, because I feel like I really have a knack for it.


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## TTcpc (Jan 23, 2014)

Hi JenIrelandMD,

My personal advice to you would be 1) don't give up, especially if it is something that you enjoy 2) go ahead and get your ICD-10 proficiency out of the way and 3) try to get a foot in the door and then tackle moving up.

I have been in coding/billing for over 14 years; however have only been certified since 2008.  Even with this experience it is difficult to get into a new job in the field or to relocate.  I don't know what part of Maryland you are in, but I would look at some of the major hospital areas there and see if you can get your foot in the door at one of them maybe beginning in billing or denials (coding plays a large part in those areas!) and "prove your worth".  With the implementation of ICD-10 right on our doorstep, your knowledge will be sought!  Maybe not in your "dream job" right off, but if you are patient, prove your worth/knowledge things will come to you, but patience is the key virtue to remember.  

I don't mean to offend anyone, but I have heard of several seasoned coders state that they will be retiring with the implementation because they don't want to deal with it and the lag time for those who stick with it will be great in October.  I feel the implementation of ICD-10 will be an opportunity to let your light shine!!!  

Stick with it and don't give up!


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## lorrpb (Jan 25, 2014)

You have to pass the ICD-10 proficiency by Sept 2015 in order to retain the certification you currently have. It does not change your credential, but you can add "ICD-10 proficient (AAPC)" to your designation.


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## Karen4plastics (Apr 18, 2014)

Please dont give up ! Yes it is an expensive money pit, but in the long run , it is so worth it to gather the knowledge from so many members @ the AAPC   good luck !


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## texancoder01 (May 5, 2014)

*QUOTE:---"*
I don't mean to offend anyone, but I have heard of several seasoned coders state that they will be retiring with the implementation because they don't want to deal with it and the lag time for those who stick with it will be great in October. I feel the implementation of ICD-10 will be an opportunity to let your light shine!!!"

No offense taken!  Recently, one of the AAPC national ICD10 trainers was at a symposium I attended and she asserted that Productivity *WILL* take a hit; she said she was doubtful that we would *EVER* regain current productivity standards under ICD10.  

I am a contract coder and am currently working at a facility where we are doing 'dual coding' in I-10 & I-9 for training purposes; and we are using 3M for the encoder...and the 'lag time' is already great with the 'dual-coding'!  (That's why I'm there...they are building a back-log daily, due to their active training in I-10). 

Also, I do not currently see the level of documentation from the providers that is required for I-10 to be 'accurate'....we're getting lots of 'unspecified'.   Without 'buy-in' from the physicians/providers, I don't see that I-10 will accomplish whatever it is that CMS is attempting to accomplish with it. 

I've been in this industry for almost 30 years and have been certified since 2001; I am also ICD10-CM-Proficient; and I am absolutely NOT attempting to dissuade anyone....but I am *'seriously'* considering retirement---at  least from active coding....there are other avenues I may consider, but I'm just not sure that I want to deal with I-10 on a daily basis for much longer...I am doing lots of 'soul-searching' and praying about it right now.   Perhaps some of the other encoders are better suited for I-10 than 3-M, but I am 'less than impressed' with the way 3M is translating I-10 vs I-9 at the facility where I'm currently working.     

Just my .02!


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## texancoder01 (May 6, 2014)

One more thing!  

The facility where I'm working/contracted currently  has at least 5 open coding positions...and since I've been there, (just over a month), 2 more of the coding staff have submitted their resignations; and several more are discussing/talking about quitting.  This particular facility, has CCA-credentialed people in 'several' of their coding slots.

For those of you starting out....good luck!   There IS hope for you newly certified people, I do believe!


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## hollyphipps27 (May 7, 2014)

*Don't give up!*

Jen-

Like another post said, you may just have to get your foot in the door somewhere and work your way up.  I strongly suggest investing the money in one of the ICD-10 bootcamps.  It will prepare you for the proficiency exam and also includes the exam in the cost.  Having that term behind your name will definitely help.  Also, on the AAPC home page look under Jobs>Job Seekers>Get Experience (Project Xtern).  Look into that.  You may have to work without pay for a while, but it will be worth it if you can make it work.  I was lucky to already be in the field when I got my CPC, so I got out of the "A" behind my credentials.  But, my sister (who is also a CPC and did not have any experience) had a really hard time finding a job.  Fortunately, she eventually got on at a hospital that offers a training program.  She had to apply for the position and gets paid just like a normal job, she's just kind of mentored I guess...maybe one of the hospitals in your area offers the same kind of program.  

Hope that helps good luck!  
Holly R.


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## fbenton96@gmail.com (Sep 18, 2014)

texancoder01 said:


> One more thing!
> 
> The facility where I'm working/contracted currently  has at least 5 open coding positions...and since I've been there, (just over a month), 2 more of the coding staff have submitted their resignations; and several more are discussing/talking about quitting.  This particular facility, has CCA-credentialed people in 'several' of their coding slots.
> 
> For those of you starting out....good luck!   There IS hope for you newly certified people, I do believe!


What's the name of the company that you are contracted with or the name of the facility, if you don't mind me asking?


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## Jcharbonnet7701 (Sep 19, 2014)

*ICD 10 coding Optimism*

I am a NEW coder still have my "A" till October than I get to submit my letters to have it removed- I know I am still a newbie & have a lot to learn but the ICD 10 proficiency exam was not so bad. And for all those retiring I can see where it may seem like a lot- but I predict New coders & the industry are going to "NEED" us more than ever so if you don't Have to retire yet- I say stick with it. AFter all, only coding for 2 years we can count on one thing- CHANGE- the codes have already changed soo many times, ICD 10 coding process is the same as ICD 9. We are all transitioning together, so we will all learn together and the outcome is to have more payors pay b/c of the specificity of ICD 10 vs ICD 9 and all the "unspecified" codes. We coders are the "Backbone" of the industry- we need the NEw coders &the Experienced coders alike. Hang in there gang we will persevere. Happy Coding


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