Wiki 57240 with 56810

Korbc

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Hello,

I'm pretty sure in the following instance I cannot code 56810 with 57240. Cms does allow a modifier to bypass the edit but I don't think this qualifies to be able to do so but was just wondering anyone's second opinion. Thank you!

The patient presented for scheduled surgery. She had previously been consented. She was taken to the operating room where general anesthesia was found to be adequate. She was prepped and draped in the usual sterile fashion in dorsal lithotomy position. Her bladder was drained. Allis clamps were used on the anterior vaginal mucosa to walk from the bladder neck toward the apex of the vagina, and the lateral aspects of the cystocele were identified and grasped using Allis clamps. The tissue was then undermined using 0.5% Marcaine plain. A knife was used to create an incision from the bladder neck down to the apex of the vagina. Allis clamps were used on the lateral aspects of the vaginal mucosa, and Metzenbaum scissors were used to dissect the mucosa away from the underlying bladder tissue. Using sharp and blunt dissection, this was dissected, and once that was accomplished, 2-0 Vicryl was used in an interrupted fashion to reapproximate the underlying muscular tissue underneath the bladder with improving support. The prolapse was reduced with these steps, and then the vaginal mucosa was slightly trimmed and reapproximated using 3-0 Vicryl. The attention was then turned to the posterior compartment. The Allis clamps were used to grasp the lateral aspects of the hymenal ring and the vaginal mucosa just distal into the vagina, and 0.5% Marcaine plain was used in this area to undermine the tissue. A knife was used to create a diamond incision for the perineoplasty. The skin was dissected off using Metzenbaum scissors. Some dissection was used in the lateral aspects at the level of the hymenal ring in order to create some space to reapproximate the deeper tissue. Once that was accomplished, 2-0 Vicryl was used to reapproximate the underlying tissue to reinforce the space over the rectum. Once that was accomplished, the vaginal mucosa was then reapproximated in the usual fashion using 3-0 Vicryl. Rectal exam was performed. No sutures were noted in the rectum. Rectum was intact. At that point, all the sites were hemostatic. I placed Premarin cream onto the suture lines, and instruments were removed. Sites were hemostatic. The patient tolerated the procedure well. She was taken to the recovery room in good condition.
 
Actually no, you can't bypass the edit.

View attachment 7243
I do see that you can bypass the edit
if you go to cms website and go to their edits and click accept so that the file downloads of their edits list a 1 is liststed next to the pair saying a bypass is allowed, but I'm wondering if in this case it is appropriate to bypass the edit despite it being allowed.
1724081824181.png



I have provided you with the link and the image of the bypass
1724081824181.png
 
Interesting.. I did note the spreadsheet has a 2023 date. Could be it's changed since the edits are updated quarterly or could be AAPC has it in their system incorrectly. For this codeset, since we use Codify, I have never coded these two together. When I have a separate procedure code, with or without an edit, I ask myself the questions related to the modifiers, eg, is it distinct, a separate encounter, separate region, etc? It's not a separate encounter, region or practitioner. Is it distinct or nonoverlapping? Maybe someone else will chime in.
 
Interesting.. I did note the spreadsheet has a 2023 date. Could be it's changed since the edits are updated quarterly or could be AAPC has it in their system incorrectly. For this codeset, since we use Codify, I have never coded these two together. When I have a separate procedure code, with or without an edit, I ask myself the questions related to the modifiers, eg, is it distinct, a separate encounter, separate region, etc? It's not a separate encounter, region or practitioner. Is it distinct or nonoverlapping? Maybe someone else will chime in.
thank you so much for your help! i have a feeling it's not appropriate to bypass it was same session same surgery and it seems like since initially the edit is there I would assume the perineoplasty is a normal party of 57240.... I mean technically different site but not sure if they always have to repair the perineum after a anterior colporrhaphy, with cystocele but I guess again from the edit they do.......still learning the ins and outs of these surgeries!
I didn't even notice that 2023 date either, I just trusted that since it was on from their site that they would always put out the latest info automatically whenever it changed so I appreciate that!
Thanks cmama12!
 
thank you so much for your help! i have a feeling it's not appropriate to bypass it was same session same surgery and it seems like since initially the edit is there I would assume the perineoplasty is a normal party of 57240.... I mean technically different site but not sure if they always have to repair the perineum after a anterior colporrhaphy, with cystocele but I guess again from the edit they do.......still learning the ins and outs of these surgeries!
I didn't even notice that 2023 date either, I just trusted that since it was on from their site that they would always put out the latest info automatically whenever it changed so I appreciate that!



As of the CMS 2024 files, these two codes are bundled with a 0 indicator meaning they may not be billed together and no modifier can be used to bypass the edit.
 
hey ms.nielynco! thanks so much for chimming in. I'm at a loss because the file that was from says 2024 quarter 3 updates? I'll attach the pic from the website of what i click on and what it says?? I hope you had a wonderful trip/vacation! always wanted to go to Ireland. Welcome back!
 

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Hello,

I'm pretty sure in the following instance I cannot code 56810 with 57240. Cms does allow a modifier to bypass the edit but I don't think this qualifies to be able to do so but was just wondering anyone's second opinion. Thank you!

The patient presented for scheduled surgery. She had previously been consented. She was taken to the operating room where general anesthesia was found to be adequate. She was prepped and draped in the usual sterile fashion in dorsal lithotomy position. Her bladder was drained. Allis clamps were used on the anterior vaginal mucosa to walk from the bladder neck toward the apex of the vagina, and the lateral aspects of the cystocele were identified and grasped using Allis clamps. The tissue was then undermined using 0.5% Marcaine plain. A knife was used to create an incision from the bladder neck down to the apex of the vagina. Allis clamps were used on the lateral aspects of the vaginal mucosa, and Metzenbaum scissors were used to dissect the mucosa away from the underlying bladder tissue. Using sharp and blunt dissection, this was dissected, and once that was accomplished, 2-0 Vicryl was used in an interrupted fashion to reapproximate the underlying muscular tissue underneath the bladder with improving support. The prolapse was reduced with these steps, and then the vaginal mucosa was slightly trimmed and reapproximated using 3-0 Vicryl. The attention was then turned to the posterior compartment. The Allis clamps were used to grasp the lateral aspects of the hymenal ring and the vaginal mucosa just distal into the vagina, and 0.5% Marcaine plain was used in this area to undermine the tissue. A knife was used to create a diamond incision for the perineoplasty. The skin was dissected off using Metzenbaum scissors. Some dissection was used in the lateral aspects at the level of the hymenal ring in order to create some space to reapproximate the deeper tissue. Once that was accomplished, 2-0 Vicryl was used to reapproximate the underlying tissue to reinforce the space over the rectum. Once that was accomplished, the vaginal mucosa was then reapproximated in the usual fashion using 3-0 Vicryl. Rectal exam was performed. No sutures were noted in the rectum. Rectum was intact. At that point, all the sites were hemostatic. I placed Premarin cream onto the suture lines, and instruments were removed. Sites were hemostatic. The patient tolerated the procedure well. She was taken to the recovery room in good condition.
Are you coding for a practitioner or a hospital? The screen snips you included in your previous response to @nielynco shows you are looking at the hospital files for the PTP edits, which does show the edit can be overridden with a modifier; however, the physician PTP table shows an indicator of 0.

1724435503105.png
1724435543181.png
Most encoder software is setup with the PTP edits for the practitioner, unless you license a facility version of the encoder software. Just keep in mind when you are looking at PTP edits who are you coding for, practitioner or facility.
 
Are you coding for a practitioner or a hospital? The screen snips you included in your previous response to @nielynco shows you are looking at the hospital files for the PTP edits, which does show the edit can be overridden with a modifier; however, the physician PTP table shows an indicator of 0.

View attachment 7281
View attachment 7282
Most encoder software is setup with the PTP edits for the practitioner, unless you license a facility version of the encoder software. Just keep in mind when you are looking at PTP edits who are you coding for, practitioner or facility.
thank you so much! i must have been going to fast! tons of help thanks! that was the problem :)
 
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